Lights on your kayak

[Cadiyak Sam]

In the wake of the tragic accident involving a PBer and several kayakers at night, I wanted to see what everyone's setup is for night fishing/kayaking. In order for us to be USCG compliant, we must have a 360 degree light on at dusk (not sure of the actual time we must turn them on, I just turn mine on when it's starting to get dark). Here's what I use:

for my 360 light: http://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/store ... ht&Ntk=All" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

for my headlamp: http://www.google.com/products/catalog? ... CEwQ8wIwAg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The 360 light is pretty crappy and doesn't emit very much light, it is used to be USCG compliant. The headlamp is VERY powerful (and waterproof!) and has a range of a quarter mile. I can actually see down into the water a few feet with it as well, which makes it really cool to use in the marshes at night. I want to try and use it for gigging. I also carry two other flashlights, one in my dry bag and another in my tackle bag.

What are y'alls setups?
Also, are there any USCG's here that can tell us, plain and simple, what the regulations are? Some of the language is a little hard to understand to a layman.

[N2bassfishing]

I use this light http://www.tek-tite.com/src/product_info.php?id=3065" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Cadiyak Sam]

That one looks cool and is probably a lot brighter than the one I use. Do you attach it to anything? If so, how do you attach it, because I think it has to be a certain height off of the water.

[N2bassfishing]

I have a 4 foot piece of pvc that I put it in behind me in a rod holder attached to my milk crate

[Boomy]

I built a fifth holder in my rocket launcher, but glued in a 3/4" female adapter. This way at night I can screw in my light (Academy cheapo that I bought for my johnboat years ago) mounted on the end of a six foot chunk of PVC. During the day I can screw in a flag holder. I'll see if I can't get a pic and post it later.

[Bobchuck78]

Do any of you mount a spot light on you kayak? I plan on using my yak for duck hunting this fall. We will put in the water 2 to 2.5 hours before sun up. My worry is that not only will the 360 light not be enough for others to see me but also I need to see where I am going. Thoughts?

[eightweight]

I've posted this a couple of times, and I'll post it again . . . cause it's important.


Last year sometime, Lighthouse Lakes. It's very early, just at daybreak. Paddling hard across the shrimp boat channel in the dim light. Too early, I know. But I had my trusty C-Light on the back of the yak, an EOS head lamp shining bright ahead, and an obnoxious orange life vest. You know how it is, love to be on the flats at dawn. I shouldn't have been there.

Suddenly I hear an outboard engine throttle back, very hard, from the left and behind. Where the hell did he come from ?! So close. Have to thank that guy for looking out for me. I really shouldn't have been there.

So I swore I'd get a decent light for my kayak, no more dinky flash lights advertised as "Coast Guard approved, 2 nm". And I swore I'd wait for day break to paddle across that boat channel.

Then I did something I swore I'd never do, I wired my yak. My Ocean Kayak Prowler 13 came with a handy battery compartment. Never thought I'd use it. This is expensive, and not recommended for everyone. But it solved my problem. So here it is.

- Attwood 2 NM LED anti-glare all around light with articulating head, 36 inches, 12 volt, 1.8 w (5530)
- Attwood pole light base, black 2-pin (91020)
- Well nuts with stainless steel screws
- Cabela's rechargeable 12 volt, 8 Ah battery
- Anchor marine grade wire, 16 AWG 100% tinned
- Anchor 1 amp fuse and holder
- misc marine grade connectors and heat shrink tubing
- GE Premium Silicone sealant, waterproof, clear


- Choose the mounting site carefully. Fully rig the kayak, then try the light in different spots. Watch for interference with seat backs, rod holders, etc. The pole may come off the yak at an angle. That's ok, that's where the articulating head comes in. Mount the pole so the head can be tilted and remain on a horizontal plane. The light should shine on the horizon, not in your eyes.

- Follow the instructions, drill a hole in the yak for the base. I drilled a practice hole in a piece of scrap and found I could get away with a much smaller hole than recommended.

- Drill three holes for the mounting screws. Well nuts are perfect for this, rubber around threaded brass inserts. As the screw tightens it compresses the rubber to seal the hole. Difficult to find, try Ace Hardware. Available on line at some kayak outfitters.

- Run the wiring from the mount through the inside of the yak to the battery compartment. I used marine grade, tinned wiring. Expensive, but whatever, I'm in over my head anyway. Hook the light up to the battery temporarily to determine which wires are positive and negative. LED lights care about polarity. If the light doesn't light, try swapping the wires, you've probably got it backwards.

- Now insert a 1 amp fuse holder on the positive side of the circuit at the battery end. Quick connects and heat shrink tubing are handy. Choose a quick connect to fit the battery terminals.

- Connect the wiring to the pole mount. Again, quick connects and heat shrink tubing are handy. Temporarily connect the light again to check polarity.

- Check the orientation of the pole base before mounting permanently, make sure the articulated head allows the light to fall on the horizon. Insert the well nuts, run a bead of silcone sealant around the base of the mount, slip in place, and screw it down.

- Connect the battery. Check the light once more.


- Very happy with the Attwood light. That's the beauty of LED's. Expensive, but very bright and low power consumption. The Attwood light has a nice lens to focus all that light on the horizon, and not in your eyes. The articulating head turned out to be very important. And it's a true 2 nm, Coast Guard approved, made for grown up boats.

- I chose a lead acid battery from Cabela's with a recharger. There are more expensive, shock resistant batteries out there. This 8 Ah battery should run the 1.8w Attwood longer than I can fish in a day.

- My biggest hesitation is the pole base. It's made for big boats, not kayaks. It fits well, and looks very good. Has a nice locking collar to hold the pole. Seals with a rubber gasket when the pole isn't in place. Drain holes inside the base allow any water that seeps in to drip out of the base (and into the yak) to protect the electrical contacts. But haven't had a problem.

- Below is a picture of the Attwood light versus the C-Light, side-by-side, on a dark night. The C-Light has fresh out-of-the-box Duracell's. There's just no comparison.

[kayakbassTX]

I use the Visicarbon Pro Light.

[oarfish]

Try these lites... http://www.lunabrite.com/

[RedWolf]

I use the Visicarbon Pro Light.

Ditto, but I use the VisiPole II. http://yakattack.us/Products/VISIPoleII.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I use the one with floating base and it slides right into one of my rod holders then clip the lanyard to a padeye "just in case" I upgraded the stock 2 LED lamp for the 4 LED and get up to 100 hours with quality batteries (actually, it still has the batteries in it that came with it when I got it and still super bright).

[OrangeQuest]

Biggest difference is the "USCG approved" and the statement "meets are exceeds Coast Guard requirements"

Requirements for a self powered boat are not the same as they are on a power driven boat...doesn't even state what distance the light can be seen from. USCG " recommends" it be the same as that of a power boat but is not required.

When installing a 360 deg light look for the statement "USCG approved" and you can't go wrong. I have been using the Atwood LED light that eightweight uses and it's been rigged close to the same way. I also installed another Atwood plug on the bow that if and when we are required to have the RED/Green nav lights they just plug in but for now I use it for a 55 watt flood light.

[Cadiyak Sam]

Do any of you mount a spot light on you kayak? I plan on using my yak for duck hunting this fall. We will put in the water 2 to 2.5 hours before sun up. My worry is that not only will the 360 light not be enough for others to see me but also I need to see where I am going. Thoughts?

Check out the headlamp link that I posted. That thing is super bright and, when compared to other headlamps of equal brightness, it's pretty dang cheap. I even saw a video of some Russian guy diving with it, so its very good in the water too. It has 4 power settings (the most powerful setting is SUPER bright), an SOS pattern, fast strobe setting (you could probably use this as a defense device, because it is very disorienting) and a standard blinking pattern. At its most powerful setting, I have actually blinded bait fish into jumping into my boat and can see a good 4-5 feet down, if conditions are right. Check it out.

[OrangeQuest]

Do any of you mount a spot light on you kayak? I plan on using my yak for duck hunting this fall. We will put in the water 2 to 2.5 hours before sun up. My worry is that not only will the 360 light not be enough for others to see me but also I need to see where I am going. Thoughts?

Check out the headlamp link that I posted. That thing is super bright and, when compared to other headlamps of equal brightness, it's pretty dang cheap. I even saw a video of some Russian guy diving with it, so its very good in the water too. It has 4 power settings (the most powerful setting is SUPER bright), an SOS pattern, fast strobe setting (you could probably use this as a defense device, because it is very disorienting) and a standard blinking pattern. At its most powerful setting, I have actually blinded bait fish into jumping into my boat and can see a good 4-5 feet down, if conditions are right. Check it out.

All the reviews say they like the light Cadiyak and it's waterproof and made of metal. At 225 lemens it has to be the brightest headlight around for $60.00.
A headlight that is that bright is perfect for night time kayaking. Look at another boater with it on and they will steer clear. I'm adding it to my safety gear!

Thanks!
OQ

[bryan_g]

Or you can get the cheap version from china:

I like the 18650 batteries:
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/h6-recharg ... -set-80914" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or 3xAAA
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/h3-focus-a ... xaaa-80915" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This one is interesting, but ugly
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/6-led-mult ... 3-aa-37102" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


I think they are all rated at IPX-5, so should be good in a light rain but not much more.

[Jedi]

I use the Visicarbon Pro Light.

I'm about to order this one!!! I have the Scotty light now and it is not high enough or bright enough.

[Cadiyak Sam]

I use the Visicarbon Pro Light.

I'm about to order this one!!! I have the Scotty light now and it is not high enough or bright enough.

Xs 2 on that. It improves your visibility for daytime and night time.

[Mr. B]

I believe the visicarbons come in different configurations as I requested the one with the 4 led head when ordering. It makes for a really bright light.

[yakattackVA]

Biggest difference is the "USCG approved" and the statement "meets are exceeds Coast Guard requirements"

Requirements for a self powered boat are not the same as they are on a power driven boat...doesn't even state what distance the light can be seen from. USCG " recommends" it be the same as that of a power boat but is not required.

When installing a 360 deg light look for the statement "USCG approved" and you can't go wrong. I have been using the Atwood LED light that eightweight uses and it's been rigged close to the same way. I also installed another Atwood plug on the bow that if and when we are required to have the RED/Green nav lights they just plug in but for now I use it for a 55 watt flood light.

That's a typical misconception but it's completely wrong. There is no USCG approval for stern lights. Some lights used are USCG approved for use as a PFD light but I can tell you none of them are "USCG Approved" as a stern light. There is no such thing. Below is a clip from an email I received from the USCG when I was trying to get USCG approval for the original VISIPole. Notice he says there is not even a USCG approval for navigation lights for boats and ships:

We don't have a Coast Guard approval program for products such as the Visipole. We only approve products which are required to be carried on boats or ships, and for which we have established standards. You can read about our approval program in general, and the specifics of what we approve and how, at our website:

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/cg5214/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Incidentally, we don't even approve navigational lights for boats and ships, which are covered under 46 CFR 111.75-17 (attached).

I hope this is helpful to you.

Kurt J. Heinz, P.E.
Chief, Lifesaving & Fire Safety Division (CG-5214)

After receiving this email I pointed him to a competitor's light that is advertised as "USCG Approved". His response:

It appears they're using a CG approved lifejacket light on the top of the pole. The website is pretty clear on that point, e.g., "20" pole with USCG approved light", and "Removable light is portable and can easily attach to life jacket" (as opposed to claiming the whole pole is approved).

Kurt J. Heinz, P.E.
Chief, Lifesaving & Fire Safety Division (CG-5214)

Just clearing up the misconception. If there was a USCG approval for 360 lights I can tell you we would have it.

Luther Cifers
YakAttack LLC

[SaltH20Assassin]

[quote="Cadiyak Sam"]
The 360 light is pretty crappy and doesn't emit very much light, it is used to be USCG compliant.

I fish at night alot and yeah that light is just a cheap flashlight on a stick but I use it and I have talked to two different barge captains in the channels while fishing and they told me they like the light and it works well for them to see me. I also use a waterproof spot light from Walmart to signal boats if I need to. That being said, I'm not sure how good the common boaters are because I've had them coming straight for me around the TC Dike in broad daylight! The captains are trained to look for people/boaters/lights, but the average boater isn't. The barge captains thanked me for at least having a 360 degree light at all and told me that small light makes all the difference in the world. Just Sharing.

[volyak]

Here's a link to a handy USCG brochure on federal regs for boats. Has lighting requirements for "vessel under oars".

http://www.uscgboating.org/fedreqs/default.html

[eightweight]

I hesitate to join this debate on USCG regulations, I'm not an expert, but ...

It may be true that the USCG does not approve battery powered "kayak lights". But the USCG does require navigation lights for boats, including stern lights, to be certified by an independent lab, indicating they meet USCG requirements. For me, the lack of certification of "kayak lights" is troublesome, and a reason to avoid them all together.


See 46 C.F.R. § 25.10-3 Navigation light certification requirements.

[OrangeQuest]

Biggest difference is the "USCG approved" and the statement "meets are exceeds Coast Guard requirements"

Requirements for a self powered boat are not the same as they are on a power driven boat...doesn't even state what distance the light can be seen from. USCG " recommends" it be the same as that of a power boat but is not required.

When installing a 360 deg light look for the statement "USCG approved" and you can't go wrong. I have been using the Atwood LED light that eightweight uses and it's been rigged close to the same way. I also installed another Atwood plug on the bow that if and when we are required to have the RED/Green nav lights they just plug in but for now I use it for a 55 watt flood light.

That's a typical misconception but it's completely wrong. There is no USCG approval for stern lights. Some lights used are USCG approved for use as a PFD light but I can tell you none of them are "USCG Approved" as a stern light. There is no such thing. Below is a clip from an email I received from the USCG when I was trying to get USCG approval for the original VISIPole. Notice he says there is not even a USCG approval for navigation lights for boats and ships:

We don't have a Coast Guard approval program for products such as the Visipole. We only approve products which are required to be carried on boats or ships, and for which we have established standards. You can read about our approval program in general, and the specifics of what we approve and how, at our website:

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/cg5214/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Incidentally, we don't even approve navigational lights for boats and ships, which are covered under 46 CFR 111.75-17 (attached).

I hope this is helpful to you.

Kurt J. Heinz, P.E.
Chief, Lifesaving & Fire Safety Division (CG-5214)

After receiving this email I pointed him to a competitor's light that is advertised as "USCG Approved". His response:

It appears they're using a CG approved lifejacket light on the top of the pole. The website is pretty clear on that point, e.g., "20" pole with USCG approved light", and "Removable light is portable and can easily attach to life jacket" (as opposed to claiming the whole pole is approved).

Kurt J. Heinz, P.E.
Chief, Lifesaving & Fire Safety Division (CG-5214)

Just clearing up the misconception. If there was a USCG approval for 360 lights I can tell you we would have it.

Luther Cifers
YakAttack LLC

Sir, I think you need to re-read my statement again...but I'll try and clear it up...The USCG has no standard on self powered craft for a nav light. Now since there is no standard for kayaks it would be wise to use a light that is approved by the USCG as a stern light for a POWER driven boat...but if you use any light that lets a vessel that is approaching your kayak of your presents then it is acceptable by the USCG, that's the way I read the regulations for kayaks. Now, I can take a "c" cell powered flashlight, put a 6 inch white dome on top of it so it glows at night it I could also make the statement that it meets or exceeds Coast Guard requirements (which there is no standard so is that a false or true statement) I sure could sell more 360 deg lights using such a statement. That being said, which would be easier to be a 360deg light for a kayak if a USCG standard was applied to kayaks an already approved stern light or a life jacket light on a stick that still needs approval for 360 deg light? Now if there was to come a time when the USCG does provide a standard of a 360 deg nav lights for kayaks I would think it would be the same standard that has already been approved by the USCG for power driven recreational boats, which my Atwood light has been approved for.

Sorry for the misconception,
OQ

Oh, PS for those that are confused, here is the Fed Reg on Nav lights

“USCG Approval 33 CFR 183.810.”

[Thidawg]

http://www.oceanequipment.com/Exclusive ... fault.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[SteveH]

Hi,

New to TKF with this post. From Boston, MA. I learned about this thread and figured I'd put 2 cents in. I rarely use my kayak for fishing. I am a paddler, lobster fisherman and powerboater operating on Boston Harbor.

We manufacture navigation lights for kayaks. Most of our customers use sit-in kayaks. Their needs vary from SOT users in a number of ways. For example it's not unusual for a SIK to roll, intentionally or not. SIKs are often in surf or shore, and often surfed to shore. SOTs, especially when used for kayak fishing, may capsize but are generally not rolled. SOTs are fairly easy to remount if capsized. My basic view is that a SOT is not a SIK, a SIK or SOT is not a stand-up (SUP), and none are used as a powerboat is used.

I agree with Luther (of Yak Attack) on his points. There are many misconceptions about what is required, recommended, approved and safe for a paddler or kayak fisherman.

USCG does have rules for "vessels under oar" here:

http://navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=Rule25

Note that A) there is no recommendation or even a suggestion that a kayak be rigged like a powerboat and B) the rule for a "vessel under oar" allows for something as basic as a flashlight to be displayed in order to avoid collision.

Then there are Texas regs. A description is here:

http://www.boat-ed.com/tx/handbook/lights.htm

In one image, it actually shows a guy holding a flashlight in a rowboat. Similar to USCG in that regard.

Texas Water Safety Act:

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publication ... 0_0014.pdf

"For a kayak (no motor): If sidelights and stern light are not practical, it must have and exhibit at least one bright light, lantern, or flashlight from sunset to sunrise in all weather."

That's pretty much the same as USCG Rule 25, but the light must remain on from sunset to sunrise.

There are also local regs within Texas for individual waterways.

A number of states require a "360° light" on at all times from sunset to sunrise and in conditions of limited visibility. Also when at anchor outside of a defined mooring area. Don't quote me, just paraphrasing here.

As for the definition of a 360° light, a passenger or operator of a boat/kayak may occasionally obscure the light, so the boat operator ALWAYS has to be vigilant about visibility. For example on my boat, a fisherman casting on the bow blocks my anchor light which stands roughly one meter tall on the forward deck. Similarly, a stand-up paddle board (SUP) surfer is not expected to have a 7-foot tall light on deck.

The above doesn't mean that a single nav lighting solution is adequate for all types of SOTs, SIKs, SUPs, etc. To Luther's credit, his company Yak Attack took years of research and development working with kayak fishermen and has identified issues which impact kayak fisherman that might not impact a paddler navigating shallow rapids. For Luther's typical customer, rolling a kayak successfully may not be as critical as providing an intense level of visibility to keep powerboats at bay even during daylight.

The fact that the differences in our lights are both entirely suitable for different customers explains why the USCG does not require or recommend one particular type of light or another. In my view, USCG regs are well crafted because they place significant responsibility on the operator instead of a one-size-fits-all solution.

As for approval by USCG, I'll also second what Luther says. He indicates "meets or exceeds" with his product because he has done his level best to develop a solution that exceeds USCG requirements and provides a greater level of visibility for his customers. We try to do the same for our customers. In my view, it is disingenuous for a company to label their kayak light "USCG Approved" in advertisements without indicating only the PFD light mounted atop their pole was actually approved (as is the case with the company Luther mentioned, and their lights). My guess is that many of their customers think they are buying a complete USCG approved assembly, not an assembly with a USCG approved PFD light as is very carefully wordcrafted into advertisements.

Because the USCG and Texas regs allow for flexibility, IMO it is important for the individual paddler or fisherman to take responsibility and determine what works best. Well-designed DIY solutions are often the best solutions for particular applications. Hopefully commercial solutions are engineered based on elbow grease, research and solid development -- not just popping a flashlight into a suction cup.

Don't get me started on running lights or colored lights mounted on kayaks. When I am operating a powerboat in Boston Harbor and see a distant flickering of red-green-red-green-red-green, it's rarely a good sign.

Thanks for providing a forum for these discussions. Appreciated.

Steve Hollinger
Kayalu

****
PS. My edit after initial post earlier today includes adding Texas Water Safety Act link & quote plus a few minor typos.

[sbursik]

http://www.oceanequipment.com/Exclusive ... fault.aspx

Pretty cool product!