How many Fly Guys?

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JW FunGuy
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Re: How many Fly Guys?

Post by JW FunGuy »

OK I come from New Mexico and I am pretty picky about Chile Relleno’s But that looks like a pretty darned good relleno.
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Ron Mc
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Re: How many Fly Guys?

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Mamacitas ranchero sauce is like stew.
If you want some eats, go to a s. Texas tacqueria - nothing north of Beeville.

When we fish the confluence of the Frio and Sabinal, we eat at Hermann Son's Steakhouse in Hondo
https://hermannsonssteakhouse.com/?page_id=39
Alvin's Pepper Steak is the only hamburger steak I'd recommend to anyone, but it's amazing, and their salad bar is great.
One of those 70-year Texas traditions.

Here's the blue hole where the Sabinal re-emerges from the aquifer a half-mile above its mouth on the Frio.
There are 5 bass sitting on the edge of the shelf at the far bank.
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Re: How many Fly Guys?

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JW FunGuy wrote:OK I come from New Mexico and I am pretty picky about Chile Relleno’s But that looks like a pretty darned good relleno.
I’ll be in Santa Fe, NM in about a week. I absolutely love the food there. The Shed, Santa Cafe, La Casa Sena. Coyote Cantina, there’s too many to list. Posole, Chile Rellenos, blue corn enchiladas, red and green sauce, aka. Christmas sauce. Can’t wait!
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Re: How many Fly Guys?

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Since Ron mentioned a Hamburger My first stop in NM is at a Blake’s Lotta Burger! If you haven’t and like hamburgers get a Lotta Burger with cheese and green chilies (hatch green chilies of course! )
You guys are making me hungry! How did we get here? :lol:
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Re: How many Fly Guys?

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JW FunGuy wrote:Since Ron mentioned a Hamburger My first stop in NM is at a Blake’s Lotta Burger! If you haven’t and like hamburgers get a Lotta Burger with cheese and green chilies (hatch green chilies of course! )
You guys are making me hungry! How did we get here? :lol:
Love hatch Chiles. Buy them here at HEB and roast them. Drive by a few lotaburgers in Santa Fe. Need to stop in.
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Re: How many Fly Guys?

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The Boxcar Cafe in Chama has a fine fresh hatch chili cheeseburger -
I can't eat them locally - they don't get it - here, they take fresh hatch chilis and turn them into mush that looks like it came out of a can.
Image Image Image
Hermann Sons is something different, a hamburger steak stuffed with onions, jalapenos and cheese, and grilled over scrub mesquite.

When we go to Aransas, though, we always seem to end up at Dairy Queen
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Kayak Kid - it was never about bettering myself.
But there are 2 approaches to the world - what I don't know doesn't exist, or, there's a better way to do this, and I'm going to find it.
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Re: How many Fly Guys?

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In Ron’s post ending in #5019, there’s so much in there that doesn’t reflect my experience. I regularly fish floating line in 3, 4 and even 5 feet of water and regularly catch multiples of fish like redfish and trout using weighted flies. A sink tip is an impediment in these places as there’s often intervening reef that will invariably snag a tungsten coated sink tip line. Instead, I use tungsten weighted patterns to great effect, they present naturally as evidenced by the fish’s response. The flies are not difficult to cast, especially employing a Belgian or continuous motion cast, and tungsten, the material used in sink tip lines and on the flies I tie, sinks over twice as fast as an equal weight of lead. So I can use less weight and get a faster sink than if I was using lead.

This method I use works, it’s not a burden to cast, the flies present naturally or otherwise why would I get multiples of fish, virtually every cast, if they did not present naturally. Ron has a lot of great ideas, but I don’t agree with how he characterizes weighted flies and the appropriate setting for floating line.
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Re: How many Fly Guys?

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hey, what do I know.
Sink tips have no purpose on planet Earth, except one - high-sticking deep chutes like the Conejos, or deep dolomite slots in the Guadalupe, but I can do that with a Teeny line.
Sink tips don't cast, and hinge worse than a half-ounce of lead.

Image

a jigged fly can imitate a shrimp to some degree, except that shrimp sink very slowly, but they can kick and evade in any direction.
Swimming with their legs, shrimp can hover, or can dive like a submarine dives, but that also is relatively slow
(the Stanzi-Mauler jig I showed on the first page imitates both the kick and the dive as best you can with lead)
A slowly moving suspended fly or a fly crawling on the bottom will get eaten.
Imitating a baitfish, hovering in the water column is the best technique -
- or bottom bouncing if you're imitating mud mnnow or blenny.

crabs are wonderful to watch - they walk sideways always with their big claw behind, threatening.
They have a tail and can kick just like a shrimp.
They can swim with their legs and hover, or they can flutter down like a spoon.
Last edited by Ron Mc on Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How many Fly Guys?

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What do you think a Teeny line is? 30 feet of sink and 70 feet of float. That is a sinking head or tip.
"Let’s discuss the difference between a full sinking line and a sink tip line. Fly line manufactures produce a variety of fly lines; floating, full sinking, sink tips, multiple tapers… the list goes on. For the purpose of this article, let’s focus on full sinking and sink tips lines. A full sinking line, is as described; the entire length of the fly line sinks at a specified rate. Correspondingly, on a sink tip line, only the tip section sinks at the specified rate. The sinking section of the line can range from a few feet up to 30 feet. "
https://www.montanaangler.com/montana-f ... er-fishing

https://news.orvis.com/fly-fishing/ask- ... -streamers
https://www.rioproducts.com/learn/streamer-line-choices
http://www.jimteeny.com/TS-Series-T-250 ... _p_22.html

Teeny's line has a little longer sinking head than most, but the majority of the line is floating running line. That by any definition is a sink tip.

I guess we are going to agree to disagree on how bait fish and crustaceans move and what constitutes a sink tip.
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Re: How many Fly Guys?

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Teeny is exactly what I described - a spliced shooting head, anyone who calls them a sink tip has Never fished one, and is without a clue.
Blind fishing, waist deep+, strong tide current.
Otherwise, for over knee-deep, slime line is perfection.
People in the industry have created all kinds of crappy fly lines trying to sell anything to repeat buyers - Teeny T-series lines is not one of those.
I have been fishing them most of 40 years.
The floating running line only floats when it's staged to be shot out - in the water, the weight of the head quickly takes it under - just like lead takes floating nylon mono under - the running line is not fly line - nothing at all like a sink tip . When you retrieve a Teeny line, it moves horizontally.
They are made to cast much greater distance than any other fly line, and in the water they make the straightest possible line between rod tip and hook point. I've fished my TS-350 down to 40' at an offshore platform.
I quit copying other people's fly patterns 30 years ago, and only need 4 in the salt.

You fished a Teeny line when? of course rhetorical
Consider that my posts were for the benefit of others.
Last edited by Ron Mc on Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:01 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: How many Fly Guys?

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All right you two go to your perspective corners. :P
If all of us fly fishers went fishing we would be critiquing each and every one of us. Because we all learned somewhere else and from somebody else. The guy that really got me into “proper” fly fishing in Colorado taught me things that were pertinent to the big waters we fished like the Gunnison and the Colorado and then different techniques for rivers like the Frying Pan or something as small as Dominques Creek. Everybody I have fished with since then has had different ideas. (But a lot is coming around like the “new” Euro Nymphing)
You think there is a reason for ALL the equipment that is out there? One reason is because we all like different things. I got a guide in the Keys a while back and used his rods. I could not cast them to save my life! The were Sage rods, not sure which one I should have written it down so I know which one not to get, but they were so slooow! I like Sage, I have two Sage rods myself but these were terrible, IMHO. But apparently he liked them. If I had a half a day to practice with it I might have got it but I only had a half a day to fish :(
So, ladies and gentlemen, here we have two distinguished fly fisherman that have two completely different ideas on what works. It shouldn’t be any surprise. Both have good advise and points. If you are looking for something different try them both and see what works for you. :D
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Re: How many Fly Guys?

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As so clearly exemplified within this thread, Ron Mac has graciously shared so much of his extensive knowledge and experience with us. Perhaps it's time that we thought about showing our appreciation in a small way .

I am preparing a request for a collection of funds for Ron Mac. I hope to raise enough money with which to purchase a decent, modern fly rod for Ron Mac. A man of his skill and love of fly fishing should not have to fish with those old fashioned, second hand, wooden fly rods. :)
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Re: How many Fly Guys?

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I can't - I don't have a place to store it, much less queue it in a fishing trip.
Salty, I have my Sage RPLX7, Fisher Natural 8, RedBone 10, Reddington 12 - this is just the graphite, which I don't go to, though the Sage stashes in my bow hold, and the Fisher is great for getting off speedy casts to spec sign.
My current favored salty S-glass is 8-1/2' Japanese Izch 6/7 para, which mimics the Sage up to about 15 knot wind, nothing will cast like the Sage over that wind. I wish I had a CGR 7/8, but let them disappear this spring, so I went hunting for the Harnell to use just as I described. I will say this, the shock of shooting line on the Sage (which is para-taper graphite) actually hurts over a day, and the para glass doesn't.
We don't even want to talk about the rest.
Hey, I can point at my buddy Mick. He moved rod-tube racks and fly tying into the pool house, so his wife wouldn't have to look at it. He has graphite rods he's never fished, and probably never will now that he's doing the same with cane.
I sold Mick my '49 Heddon 8' 1-3/4f with the peckerhead grip (listed that way in the catalog)
He was giggling the whole time he was lawn-casting it. (it really is a wonderful rod and hard to part with except for hole-burning thing)
Image Image
then there's that thing - how many times can you say you bought a new rod, fished it for 5 years and sold it for twice what you paid? another rhetorical question
Last edited by Ron Mc on Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:57 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: How many Fly Guys?

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Kayak Kid wrote:As so clearly exemplified within this thread, Ron Mac has graciously shared so much of his extensive knowledge and experience with us. Perhaps it's time that we thought about showing our appreciation in a small way .

I am preparing a request for a collection of funds for Ron Mac. I hope to raise enough money with which to purchase a decent, modern fly rod for Ron Mac. A man of his skill and love of fly fishing should not have to fish with those old fashioned, second hand, wooden fly rods. :)

Now that’s funny!
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Re: How many Fly Guys?

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JW FunGuy wrote:All right you two go to your perspective corners. :P
If all of us fly fishers went fishing we would be critiquing each and every one of us. Because we all learned somewhere else and from somebody else. The guy that really got me into “proper” fly fishing in Colorado taught me things that were pertinent to the big waters we fished like the Gunnison and the Colorado and then different techniques for rivers like the Frying Pan or something as small as Dominques Creek. Everybody I have fished with since then has had different ideas. (But a lot is coming around like the “new” Euro Nymphing)
You think there is a reason for ALL the equipment that is out there? One reason is because we all like different things. I got a guide in the Keys a while back and used his rods. I could not cast them to save my life! The were Sage rods, not sure which one I should have written it down so I know which one not to get, but they were so slooow! I like Sage, I have two Sage rods myself but these were terrible, IMHO. But apparently he liked them. If I had a half a day to practice with it I might have got it but I only had a half a day to fish :(
So, ladies and gentlemen, here we have two distinguished fly fisherman that have two completely different ideas on what works. It shouldn’t be any surprise. Both have good advise and points. If you are looking for something different try them both and see what works for you. :D
I don’t mind anyone challenging my statements or expressed ideas. I don’t take it personally. There is always the truth and sometimes that’s hard to completely get an expressed version of. I certainly don’t want to be the god of anything as people make horrible gods.

I’ve got zero against Ron. Some of his statements as he expressed them herein did not reflect my experience or knowledge of things. I made statements that reflected my experience and perception of things. That’s all it is. Nothing really to see here. I’d say carry on.

I do appreciate this forum and would rather prefer an occasional dust up than deadsville.
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Re: How many Fly Guys?

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Kayak Kid wrote:As so clearly exemplified within this thread, Ron Mac has graciously shared so much of his extensive knowledge and experience with us. Perhaps it's time that we thought about showing our appreciation in a small way .

I am preparing a request for a collection of funds for Ron Mac. I hope to raise enough money with which to purchase a decent, modern fly rod for Ron Mac. A man of his skill and love of fly fishing should not have to fish with those old fashioned, second hand, wooden fly rods. :)
how about now? You can't match the weight, action and balance of this in a new rod - graphite just doesn't live here.
4oz, 8' progressive 7-wt with a powerful butt.
Super control in close, tight loops, forgiving, quick to get out - accurate casting.
$107.50 for the rod (and it cost the seller $20 to ship).
As funky as this rod looks in its old clothes, it was made just for this job over 50 years ago.
The reel seat is solid, my favorite cork shape
Imagethe exceptional reel, btw, is still made by two brothers in their aerospace fab shop in Massachusetts.
The design uses the 1905 Eton Sun patent, but with a solid disc drag.
https://www.valentineflyreel.com/html/c ... etary.html
of course mine was $110 new in the 80s
I had one of their single-action reels from then, but its value burned a hole in my pocket (quadrupled over its original price).

KK - you know the feeling with a fast graphite rod when you have more leader than line out and you're casting like a one-armed paper hanger trying to keep the leader off the water?
Be sure the fish know what that looks like.
A progressive glass rod doesn't do that. In close, the casting process with just the leader is the same speed or slower than when you have more line out and are loading deeper down the blank. Overall, everything about loading the glass rod is a bit slower, but that's not a bad thing, because it gives you more control.
If you're not used to the slow tip, standing up and casting it feels weird. But it's this quality that makes this rod the choice for sitting in a kayak over a para-taper rod or graphite in general.

this rod duplicates the action of a Phillipson EF80-S (S for salt) I had custom-built from blank many years ago, though one-line-weight lighter - and of course if I hadn't sold it a few years ago, wouldn't have gone looking for the Harnell
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contention among the people I fish with? well of course it does not exist
Each to their own, but certainly no one contradicts another - the people I fish with all fish with the enthusiasm of kids, and that's what makes them infectious.

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