Reel Cleaning - Not that hard

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Yaklash
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Reel Cleaning - Not that hard

Post by Yaklash »

If you are methodical, take pictures along the way, lay the parts out in the order they cam off of the reel, this really isn't rocket science. Worse comes to worst, and you can't get it back together correctly, then you can take to a pro and have them finish it up for you.
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Crusader
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Re: Reel Cleaning - Not that hard

Post by Crusader »

Had to learn how to clean reels when I got hooked on fishing for trout in surf. Nothing complicated really, but ultimately "use cheap reels and throw them away when they stop working" strategy prevailed.

In the same spirit (and since I am kinda bored right now) here are few other recent personal experiences:
- discovered a problem with my (tankless) water heater (installer used steel pipe with copper connector, dissimilar metals contact cause corrosion and it started leaking). Got a quote from plumbing company (~$1k); tooks few pics, visited Ace Hardware, spent $50; after 20 mins of work problem was solved (just replaced 2 pieces of steel pipe with copper)
- same plumber quoted $440 "for a flush" (basically pumping descaling agent though heater to get rid of calcium deposits); spent an hour googling and youtubing; $60 tools, 1 gal of vinegar and 10 mins of actual work later problem's gone (it has to run for like an hour, but connect/disconnect is trivial)
- mechanic wanted $1.2k for "lower control arms replacement". Well, you guessed it -- google parts ($100 for 2 arms), google/youtube for process -- there isn't even a need to replace entire arm if you have means to press bushing into old arms (even cheaper). Waiting for parts and tools right now... :)

It is amazing how much stuff can be done with your own hands... Especially nowadays with all the info and cheap tools available to us.
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kickingback
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Re: Reel Cleaning - Not that hard

Post by kickingback »

:lol:
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TexasJim
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Re: Reel Cleaning - Not that hard

Post by TexasJim »

Yeah, yaklash: Through several years of reel disassembly and re-assembly, I have discovered every possible way to reassemble my reels WRONG! There are so many parts that can be reversed or rotated on reassembly that will make the reel not work. Every session is back at the top of the learning curve. It's amazing that my Abu reel has about half as many parts as my Shimano, but they both function almost identically. Both of them suffer if I let them sit for a week after a saltwater fishing trip. I have finally made myself at least take the side plates off and dry out the salt.

Adult education is painful! TexasJim
Texas Hooter
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Re: Reel Cleaning - Not that hard

Post by Texas Hooter »

I took apart a lews speed spool and now it sounds horrible. Sounds like something is seriously screwed up.
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Re: Reel Cleaning - Not that hard

Post by jnd1959 »

I've been modifying and rebuilding old Penn reels for several years. There is a forum that deals specifically with reel maintenance, upgrade and modification. Just like what you can do to a car, you can do to a reel. Cut, chop and rebuild. I'm not sure we can post the site so if you want to look at it PM me.

I am working on a Penn 6/0 right now.

I just finished a Longbeach 66 (bought two on fleabay for $26, took the best parts from both and created one stock reel). Next I will upgrade the drive to SS and add a bigger drag stack. Then I will either mill my own half frame or buy a custom half frame to replace the bars on the stock 66. I'm currently running 275 yards of Trilene big game 50 on it but after the mods, it could move up a weight class. Line capacity and ratio would be the biggest limiting factor.

The 6/0 will get all new stainless steel innards, double dogs and an upgraded drag stack. later I will add a tiburon frame (or similar) and if I get industrious, try to fit an automatic 2 speed on it. I paid $42 for it and I expect it will be able to handle 25lbs of drag with little to no flex when all done. I will likely have $150 in it when it is all finished and will be a class 80 reel. Do I need another 80 class reel? Of course not. But that's not the point.

Warning, reel modification is a rabbit hole with no bottom. You will be consumed.

Edited for poor typing performance. Misspelled words corrected.
Last edited by jnd1959 on Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
jnd1959
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Re: Reel Cleaning - Not that hard

Post by jnd1959 »

Texas Hooter wrote:I took apart a lews speed spool and now it sounds horrible. Sounds like something is seriously screwed up.
Does it make the sound when in free spool or when cranking?
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Re: Reel Cleaning - Not that hard

Post by Texas Hooter »

When cranking.
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Re: Reel Cleaning - Not that hard

Post by jnd1959 »

Do you know if this reel uses dogs or an anti-reverse bearing? If it is a Shimano style dog the drive gear splits the dog. Sometimes the dog will not seat on the gear properly and the reel will grind. In this case the anti revers may work, may lock up the reel or may not work. Another thing to check is if it goes in and out of freespool easily or if it locks up.

Another item to check is, if the drag stack uses a keyed washer, make sure the keyed washer is oriented properly. Most small reels don't key on the drive gear but key on the shaft. Make sure that is seated. If those are not it, recheck the washer configuration. I haven't broken open this reel so I am guessing on what is inside.

Edit, keyed washer keys on the drive gear or the spacer that puts pressure on the drag, not the shaft. sorry.
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Re: Reel Cleaning - Not that hard

Post by Cityfisher »

My confusion is how much and where to use grease vs oil. Different sources tell me different things. Do you oil your drag washers? Some do, some don't!! The first time I broke my Abu Garcia down and cleaned it and got it greased and oiled up it sounded horrible. I had to take it apart and rinse it all off with dawn and then applied a whole lot less oil and only greased very very lightly the gears.
I love taking apart my reels and cleaning them. It relaxes me.
Cleaned my Calcutta last night. (Inherited it from my dad) This time I did more research on where to use oil and where to use grease. And however much they said to use, I used much less, and it is smooth as butter now. :)
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Re: Reel Cleaning - Not that hard

Post by Texas Hooter »

I wonder if my issue could be too much grease
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Re: Reel Cleaning - Not that hard

Post by jnd1959 »

Cityfisher wrote:My confusion is how much and where to use grease vs oil. Different sources tell me different things. Do you oil your drag washers? Some do, some don't!! The first time I broke my Abu Garcia down and cleaned it and got it greased and oiled up it sounded horrible. I had to take it apart and rinse it all off with dawn and then applied a whole lot less oil and only greased very very lightly the gears.
I love taking apart my reels and cleaning them. It relaxes me.
Cleaned my Calcutta last night. (Inherited it from my dad) This time I did more research on where to use oil and where to use grease. And however much they said to use, I used much less, and it is smooth as butter now. :)
I Grease the gears with yahama marine or similar marine grease. Oil spool bearings very sparingly (some ceramics reccomend no oil). If you have carbon drags grease with drag grease. some of the older drag washers don't play well with grease. I grease the bearing that supports the post (drive shaft in car terms). I also remove the shields from by drive bearings but not from the spool bearings. The benefits of this are disputed somewhat as you can damage the bearing if not careful. The theory is the drive bearings are going to get gunk under the shields anyway (mostly salt water) and the shields will just keep the gunk under them. Grease the dogs but not so much that they don't function. Do not oil or grease anti-reverse bearings. They need friction to work. This is mostly spinning reels but my 10wt fly reel usese a one-way bearing.

On the big Penn reels, I grease the screws before they go in and I grease the rings, clicker and side plates. Oil the bushings if they don't have spool bearings.

I can spend hours on a reel and not realize it. I told my wife when we retire were going to get a motorhome and start in Brownsville. We'll stop at each harbor and have a mobile reel repair shop. We'll fix enough for food money and make our way all the way around to Narragansat. She told me she was good from Brownsville to Corpus. After that I was on my own.

OP, it wasn't my intention to hijack this post. Reel work is one of the most relaxing things I can do and probably the only time I don't think about work stress. I get excited when this topic comes up.
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Re: Reel Cleaning - Not that hard

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Cityfisher wrote:My confusion is how much and where to use grease vs oil. Different sources tell me different things. Do you oil your drag washers? Some do, some don't!! The first time I broke my Abu Garcia down and cleaned it and got it greased and oiled up it sounded horrible. I had to take it apart and rinse it all off with dawn and then applied a whole lot less oil and only greased very very lightly the gears.
Grease gears, greasse drag washers with drag grease. Oil bearings. I oil the worm gear, but have been told only to put some oil in the pawl, not on the gear.Meh.

The thing Shimano will tell you is as little oil or grease as possible and for bearings and gears, that works for me. But for the anti-reverse (clutch roller bearing), I use more than they say because they seem to rust out fast if you don't.
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Re: Reel Cleaning - Not that hard

Post by Cityfisher »

Yaklash wrote:
Cityfisher wrote:My confusion is how much and where to use grease vs oil. Different sources tell me different things. Do you oil your drag washers? Some do, some don't!! The first time I broke my Abu Garcia down and cleaned it and got it greased and oiled up it sounded horrible. I had to take it apart and rinse it all off with dawn and then applied a whole lot less oil and only greased very very lightly the gears.
Grease gears, greasse drag washers with drag grease. Oil bearings. I oil the worm gear, but have been told only to put some oil in the pawl, not on the gear.Meh.

The thing Shimano will tell you is as little oil or grease as possible and for bearings and gears, that works for me. But for the anti-reverse (clutch roller bearing), I use more than they say because they seem to rust out fast if you don't.
Thank you!!
Love this post. I to can sit at my kitchen table working on them and researching for hours.
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Re: Reel Cleaning - Not that hard

Post by TexasJim »

Oil or grease? Oil or grease? Bottom line is: the active, load-carrying element in greases is oil! You should use the thinnest oil that you can keep contained. If your mechanism isn't sealed well, oil will run out. Hence the need for grease.
Greases are thickened oils. The thickeners are calcium soap and lithium soap. Your bearing pair materials determine which to use. Calcium soap greases work well with hardened steel, roller and needle bearings. Lithium soap greases work well with aluminum/bronze or beryllium/copper sliding bearings/bushings running on steel mating surfaces, or gear sets of those materials.

There are myriad EP(extreme pressure) additives put into grease, to increase the load-carrying capability of the grease. Common are teflon, molybdenum disulfide, arsenic(in the old days), secret sauce, and lots of other hokus-pokus slick-ums. Most of those things don't really have an effect until loads get high enough to make the bearing surfaces get hot, and then, the EP additives put a coating on the hot spots, providing higher load-carrying capability. Rarely would a reel get loaded to the point that the EP additives would be effectual. The exception would be the drag washers in a reel with a 300-pound marlin running away. Because the drag washer sets aren't normally two metals rubbing together, the right "drag washer grease" is subjective and a function of your drag washer materials. Ask you reel maker.

Bottom-line: You should run the lightest oil you can keep in place. If no seals, you have to use grease. I use 3-in-1 oil everywhere on my reels, except the primary and secondary crank gears. Because of this, I religiously break down my reels after each trip, make sure no saltwater is there, oil them(pretty much the spool bearings, and the level-wind mechanism). Occasionally, I will open up the drive side, put some grease on the gears, and the free-spool detent, and clean and lubricate the drag washers with Vaseline. It works for me. No expensive, proprietary lubricant required.

YMMV TexasJim
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Re: Reel Cleaning - Not that hard

Post by Cityfisher »

As I read you reply Texas Jim I was looking at my Sonora spinning reel parts across my kitchen table hoping I could revive it from an accidental dunking in the bay. It seized up on me after it went in pretty quick.
That was a lot to think about, but I thought about what you said and got it cleaned and back together and it feels like it's good to go now. Took me 3 times over the last couple days though! Lol
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Re: Reel Cleaning - Not that hard

Post by Texas Hooter »

I pulled it apart today very carefully and everything is where it should be according to the schematic. I removed all grease and put it back together with just a little bit of oil. The issue seems to have went away. I haven’t been able to cast it very far but did throw a popping cork around the yard and no crazy sounds. I would have never thought too much grease could screw up a reel like that.
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Re: Reel Cleaning - Not that hard

Post by bikesnfire737 »

If you're looking for some excellent breakdowns of various reel styles and models, one of my favorite places for info is a blog called Gasping Gourami. Old reels and newer styles, too. Dude is crazy meticulous. Nice breakdown of lube sites and lube choices for saltwater reels. I found it while looking around on my source for reel schematics, Mike's Reel. Ton of free schematics on that page once you figure out how to navigate it. Yeah, I kinda dig the tinkering part of reel maintenance. Kind of a zen thing about it.
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Re: Reel Cleaning - Not that hard

Post by broke »

Here are a few things that I've learned over the years regarding reel cleaning that I haven't seen mentioned yet:
  • Getting oil on the spool shaft can significantly decrease the speed that it spins, which decreases casting distance. Whenever I oil the bearings that support the shaft, I run a q-tip through the hole of the bearing to make sure its free of oil and clean the spool shaft off with a q-tip soaked in alcohol before reassembly.
  • A problem I used to run into quite frequently with all of the low-profile Shimano casting reels I've owned over the years was a failure to re-engage after a cast after turning the handle (the handle would spin but the thumb bar wouldn't pop back up and the spool was still free). This tended to happen after many days of hard fishing in the kayak and is a pretty good sign the reel needed to be cleaned. The only way I've found to get it to re-engage on the water is by repeatedly banging on the side of the reel a few times and then giving the handle a few cranks.

    To mitigate this problem, I started putting a thin layer of grease on the reel's frame where the clutch pawl rides. This hasn't completely eliminated it but it has significantly decreased the frequency at which it occurs.
  • I was totally against washing down my reel's after each outing in my kayak for years and would berate any of my friends who did this. I thought this would just push salt/grime down into the reel's internals. I believed the only right method was to completely break down each reel for a proper cleaning at the conclusion of a trip.

    I'm now 100% for rinsing your reels off in the shower after each outing. I still try to break down my reels at the end of each trip, but if I don't it's not a big deal. I don't have to buy parts before the next trip if I don't get around to it like I would before.
As far as actually cleaning my reels, I use a combination of q-tips/paper towels soaked in rubbing alcohol and an old tooth brush. I also soak all bearing and most of the parts that are greased/oiled in a large pill bottle filled with alcohol for a several hours.
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