Has Skinny water kayak fishing ruined your outings on guided boats?

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lc2hl
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Has Skinny water kayak fishing ruined your outings on guided boats?

Post by lc2hl »

I have been kayak fishing for almost a year and a half. I got into saltwater inshore last September, and have been going strong since. I have shortened my learning curve by fishing with some really talented anglers and guides, and have learned to research areas before I ever hit the water, and I always develop plans b and c.
Two of the last 3 weekends I fished from a boat for benefit tournaments in Galveston and in Rockport. Both times, the guides were focused on mid bay reefs and isolated mid bay structure as well as jetties. While this was good for some trout, and we put a hurting on some trout, when it was time for reds to round out the submitted stringer, the guides left me extremely frustrated.
On the first tourney, I was actually getting some reports (acceptable via the rules) that a few of my friends were having a great day within a 20 minute run from our location (they were on kayaks). I shared the info, but it seemed to not matter. The guide spent hours outside and inside of the jetties in the gulf convinced that they would be there. we had zero bites until 9:45 (over 3 hours of fishing) when we got back to flat water and we immediately hooked up under some birds, then sand trout, then some really good specs. All on plastics when the boat was set up for live bait. We also jacked a 27 5/8" red. We ran out of time to work the shallows.
On the second tourney, our guide essentially just quit. I have never seen something like this. We sent him the rules when we booked him for the team, and the timelines that we were working with. I normally do not see a guide head out with a cast net, but he was looking for bait. I even made the comment I thought he may be out of bait on the boat. I really wish I had brought some plastics. Weigh in started at 2:30 to 4:30. Apparently the guide was done at 12:15, and headed for the ramp. I had my kayak at the rental house and was about a millisecond away from grabbing it and heading to Goose Island to beat up the shorelines looking for a red or 2 for the stringer. My team was appreciative, but we just went out for lunch instead since we had essentially been beaten by our own guide.
Neither guide even attempted to get shallow. They were both convinced that the "right" fish would not be by any marsh at all. In direct contradiction to what I have been quite successful at, and for the record, I highly dislike quitting. I would rather grind it out to the last available second and come away empty handed that quit with hours on the clock.
The weekend in between, I fished the LSKS #2. I was SHALLOW way back in the marsh in less that ideal conditions. I weeded thru some fish (I was on them 5 minutes after getting to spot 3) and had a decent 2 fish, enough for what I am happy with for my first ever kayak tournament.
So has kayak fishing ruined your experience with guided boat fishing, be it skiff or bay? Or is there a point when you need to weed thru some guides to find what you expect? That can get expensive real quick...
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Cuervo Jones
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Re: Has Skinny water kayak fishing ruined your outings on guided boats?

Post by Cuervo Jones »

Makes me ever more thankful that I've never hired a guide.


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Re: Has Skinny water kayak fishing ruined your outings on guided boats?

Post by hipshot »

Did you discuss these issues with your guide prior to committing? Many guides don't run boats capable of fishing skinny water, and the majority of their clients are "live bait under a cork on a spinning reel" level tourists or novice anglers. Not to say that there aren't a few guides who are "live bait under a cork on a spinning reel" level anglers, at best. When you are used to working marsh from a kayak, you'll be hard pressed to find a guide in a powerboat who is able to match that experience, at least on the Texas coast. And if that guide has been catching reds on a deeper pattern, he/she will want to stick with that. Guides with the equipment, skills, and current knowledge to fish that way out of a powerboat are not the norm; they gear up for their "average" clientele to make a living. Next time (if there is a next time) be specific about your expectations; most of them will shoot straight with your expectations are reasonable.

And if you did do all of these things prior to booking a trip, you have my condolences. The world we live in..........
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Crusader
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Re: Has Skinny water kayak fishing ruined your outings on guided boats?

Post by Crusader »

Most boaters are scared of skinny water and for a good reason -- you really need to know your marsh to take a boat into it.

Beating reefs in 5-6 fow is safe, proven and boring af way to catch fish, yes. :)

I fished with various boat users -- only one of them knew what he was doing in marsh, but it was rather clear he was well prepared for this particular area. Lately, if I see that we are going after reef trout, I ask to be dropped off near some marsh drain and beat banks until picked up.

There is nothing like going into new area real deep into marsh and hunt reds in skinny water, hard to do in the boat without careful preparations.
lc2hl
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Re: Has Skinny water kayak fishing ruined your outings on guided boats?

Post by lc2hl »

Maybe I am a little skewed in my expectarion of a guide. I have fished with guides that were absolutely awesome over the last year for various client outings. Last year we fished with a guide in POC that was up in it, and running hard. James put us on some awesome fish and worked it hard until the last available minute. Then having fished out of Redfish Lodge, Johan, Brian and Ryan were top notch, and I got to learn a great deal from each of them. That made it all worth it by itself. Same thing, they were on the ball and ready.
It could be that standard basic guide is boring, I would just imagine that being a service industry, and the fact that these were 2 tourneys, benefit or not, it would be different.
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Re: Has Skinny water kayak fishing ruined your outings on guided boats?

Post by Yaklash »

Unfortunately, depending on the type of tournament it is, guides can have a widely varying degree of incentive to excel. Charity tournaments are the worst, because the guides are usually doing the trip pro bono. But marketing never stops. Had a guide give up in a charity tournament once. He was blacklisted…

Another valid point, as you head down the coast, the closer to the Coastal Bend you get, the higher the percentage of guides that just don’t like to wade or get back into shallow backwaters. Like said above, a lot of their clients are tourists, not coastal anglers and are not used to wading. Years ago I hired a young guide out of Rockport for a trip with my 2 fishing buddies. I had fished with his father before, but he was booked so we got the son. After 3 phone calls, where we talked all about lures, on the day of the trip, he said live shrimp was the only way to go. We were miffed to say the least, but each of us packed some wading gear and our wading boxes. We had done OK with the shrimp and he was taking us into some great areas, but we kept getting frustrated with his inability to get up into fish we could tell were there.

Finally we said, “we’re getting out and wading here. You can come with or stay here in the boat.” He came with us in his deck shoes :lol: and we had an epic Carlos Bay shell reef wade (he would never have been able to get to those fish on the back side of the reef in that boat). When we were getting back into the boat with 3-4 trout each – all better than 3 pounds – he was a little embarrassed, but more importantly, he was a changed man. We hired him another 5 times over the next few years and he had new spots to wade every time. We even introduced him to Corky fishing :D
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Lat22
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Re: Has Skinny water kayak fishing ruined your outings on guided boats?

Post by Lat22 »

Kayak fishing has ruined my outings on my own boat. :mrgreen:
lc2hl
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Re: Has Skinny water kayak fishing ruined your outings on guided boats?

Post by lc2hl »

Lat22 wrote:Kayak fishing has ruined my outings on my own boat. :mrgreen:
I can see this happening for sure!
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Re: Has Skinny water kayak fishing ruined your outings on guided boats?

Post by IDIVEMIKE »

I'm a novice fisherman at best. I get lucky. I've read a bit and watched some videos. I will probably higher a guide soon to help me out but when I do it'll be a kayak guide who can help me with soft baits!
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WoodsWaterSky
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Re: Has Skinny water kayak fishing ruined your outings on guided boats?

Post by WoodsWaterSky »

lc2hl wrote:
Lat22 wrote:Kayak fishing has ruined my outings on my own boat. :mrgreen:
I can see this happening for sure!
LOL! It already has happened. It would be safe to say that 90% of the places we have fished this year are not safely accessible by boat and that broadens our strategies. Besides, we also find those hard to get to "low pressure" spots that have rewarded us with some nice reds. Fishing from a boat is fun, but when you see the area from a kayak fishing point of view, you do feel limited.
Congrats on your winning in the LSKS tourney too!
lc2hl
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Re: Has Skinny water kayak fishing ruined your outings on guided boats?

Post by lc2hl »

WoodsWaterSky wrote:
lc2hl wrote:
Lat22 wrote:Kayak fishing has ruined my outings on my own boat. :mrgreen:
I can see this happening for sure!
LOL! It already has happened. It would be safe to say that 90% of the places we have fished this year are not safely accessible by boat and that broadens our strategies. Besides, we also find those hard to get to "low pressure" spots that have rewarded us with some nice reds. Fishing from a boat is fun, but when you see the area from a kayak fishing point of view, you do feel limited.
Congrats on your winning in the LSKS tourney too!
You know it! We have been to some really shallow areas for sure! And thank you, a 5th place finish for my first tourney has me itching for the next one, with sights on a higher finish!
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Re: Has Skinny water kayak fishing ruined your outings on guided boats?

Post by karstopo »

I sure like skinny water kayak fishing, not so skinny water, and even down right chubby water kayak fishing! Nothing like being the master of your own craft all 14 feet of it. The price is right, too. Get your boat for keeps for what it might cost for two or three guided trips. And you get great shoulders or legs depending on if you paddle or pedal. Freedom and adventure are just paddle strokes away.

My comment on guides might read "not enough reviews to rate this experience". I've been on a few offshore guided excursions and faraway places hire a guide or you don't get access type of deals, but as far as Texas inshore fishing I can only think of one guided trip I've been on and I was on board more of as a captive than a participant of my own free will. This was a coastal bend trip and the guide that was recommended and hired bailed at the last minute and we got a substitute guide. Yea, it was a pull up to a spot and toss out a shrimp under the popping cork trip. I think some trout were caught. I was happy the trip was only a half day. The guide did his job if the sole goal of fishing was to catch some fish for the box and take some photos on the dead fish on the boards. And I bet that's what 90% of his clientele want. Different strokes for different folks.

If I ever feel like I'm missing out on some essential and wonderful experience and a guide is the only way to get there, then I'll hire the guide.
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Re: Has Skinny water kayak fishing ruined your outings on guided boats?

Post by Crusader »

karstopo wrote:The price is right, too. Get your boat for keeps for what it might cost for two or three guided trips.
You are spoiling yourself. Mine costs less than one guided trip. :D
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Re: Has Skinny water kayak fishing ruined your outings on guided boats?

Post by The Angler »

After experiencing the stealth of a kayak,fishing from a boat makes me feel like I'm spooking the fish; unless I'm fishing deep water reefs, or jetties, then I get out and wade.
I think your guide was just trying to get you on some upper slots fishing the jetties; usually you have to weed through the over slots to find the good ones, but there can be some good tournament fish in there.
You can tell a lot about a guides style of fishing by the boat he runs, and they usually tell you what boats they're running on their website. If you want a guide to take you stalking fish from a boat, then the best option would be to find a guide with a poling skiff, or some type of casting platform.
lc2hl
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Re: Has Skinny water kayak fishing ruined your outings on guided boats?

Post by lc2hl »

The Angler wrote:After experiencing the stealth of a kayak,fishing from a boat makes me feel like I'm spooking the fish; unless I'm fishing deep water reefs, or jetties, then I get out and wade.
I think your guide was just trying to get you on some upper slots fishing the jetties; usually you have to weed through the over slots to find the good ones, but there can be some good tournament fish in there.
You can tell a lot about a guides style of fishing by the boat he runs, and they usually tell you what boats they're running on their website. If you want a guide to take you stalking fish from a boat, then the best option would be to find a guide with a poling skiff, or some type of casting platform.
I tell you the truth, if I was ever in the market for another boat it would be a flats boat with a poling platform, no doubt. A lot of guides I have seen down in the Rockport area are running Haynie boats, able to get up and go in 12" of water and run in 6-8". They are definitely fishing platforms. What I had a big problem with is he would not let us into casting range of wind blown shorelines anywhere. It boggles my mind. With the wind, rain and tide, I have serious doubts there were any big reds on the wind blown reefs we fished, I have been wrong before, but all indications were we were on the wrong side of the reef, and we needed to look for some protected water.

All in all, you live and learn. On a positive note, we know who to not use on the next trip down there.
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Re: Has Skinny water kayak fishing ruined your outings on guided boats?

Post by Yaklash »

lc2hl wrote: All in all, you live and learn. On a positive note, we know who to not use on the next trip down there.
There you go....the blacklist.
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Re: Has Skinny water kayak fishing ruined your outings on guided boats?

Post by pgardn »

Not really.

Because the guides I go with in the Rockport/Aransas pass are wading guides and are more after good trout. They can get you quickly to good spots and have very specific plans depending on the day. If I'm sitting in a boat, forget it, I'm not going.

Jay Watkins is tremendous IMO. He tells you why you are going where you are going. He explains the plan of the Wade. And he moves if things are not working to his liking. Very willing to share knowlege. I have always been a tag along, never hired him on my own. But if I'm asked to go to share expenses I'm there.

I think I have been with him six times and everytime its been a great experience and a pleasant day. And we have always got into fish. Oh, I don't tournament fish. Last thing I want to do is rush back for a weigh in. Relax, soak it in.
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Re: Has Skinny water kayak fishing ruined your outings on guided boats?

Post by WoodsWaterSky »

A guides clientele is built on his ability to satisfy people on their fishing trip. Though there is never a guarantee you will catch fish, their determination to see that you do makes a huge impact on whether or not you book them again or refer them to others. I have only been out with a few guides myself, and they made sure we caught fish.
I have thought about booking a trip with Rick Spillman and if anyone has fished with him, I would like to hear about your experience. PM me if you like.

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Re: Has Skinny water kayak fishing ruined your outings on guided boats?

Post by Dc1211 »

I went out with Steve Soule, you might of seen him in the Troutsupport video (shallow reds). I told him I was a kayak fisherman and he gave me a ton of information on how to catch reds with soft plastics, and we caught a lot of reds. He took me to areas that I could get to with my kayak, we fished shorelines and marshes.
I do understand your point but if you do some reasearch and make sure the guide specializes in the type of fishing your looking to do then catch fish or not it should be a better experience.
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