Fly fishing Kayak suggestions

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TexasFlyaker
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Fly fishing Kayak suggestions

Post by TexasFlyaker »

I'm looking at upgrading. I fly fish exclusively and am in the market for a sot kayak. I've fished sit in sides for years but know I'm wanting something fishing dedicated. My current yak in a 14.5 dagger and after 5 hrs its hard to climb out of. Its great for camping and exploring but not a good fishing platform. I'm looking for something under the 1000 dollar mark. I know Jacksons and Hobie's are great but just out of my price point. I need a kayak I can stand up and site cast from but isn't like paddling a barge. I'm 5.10 180 lbs and fish 75% fresh (small and large lakes) and 25% salt. I looked at the ascends as well as the vibe sea ghost, but I've never paddled either one. Any info or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.
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karstopo
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Re: Fly fishing Kayak suggestions

Post by karstopo »

Not exactly a SOT, but I love my WS Commander 140. I fly fish 100% of the time from the Commander and 98% while standing. I can cast farther and more accurately with less false casting standing in the kayak versus wading in the water. Nothing at your feet to snag line other than your feet (going barefoot greatly helps reduce standing on the line). No hatches, rigging, transponder hubs, pedals, etc. I keep two fly rods strung and ready in that space and just strip the line over them. The rods act as an improvised stripping pad. Bench seat is easy to rise to standing and sit back down again.

I'm able to paddle while standing and scout for fish. The paddle fits nicely and quietly into shock cording forward for a quick smooth transfer from paddling to making the shot. The hull helps contain the stripped line on windy days. I've never fallen out in the several years I've used it. I really don't know how you could design a better kayak for a fly fisherman that wants to access water that is not conducive to wade fishing.

Would I go offshore in this? No. The Commander handles chop well, but it isn't an offshore kayak. But the ability to sort of focus on the fish and not manage the loose line and not worry about snagging stuff is pretty nice. Some folks seem to think the Commander sits up high like a canoe when in fact it is just over an inch higher at the sides as compared to my Tarpon 140. I've been in plenty of canoes and the Commander handles nothing like a canoe will in the wind.

But if you need hatches and fish finder mounts and pedals and such, the Commander is not for you. Nothing wrong with any of that, the Commander just isn't designed for those. I keep my flies and assorted gear in the large area aft of the bench seat. I keep a net forward and sometimes a soft ice chest at the bow. My pliers go in the low seat, a seat I never use. The butt end of the rods lay on the low seat. I use 7'6"or 8' rods so they don't extend beyond the tip of the bow. I've used 9' rods too, but I just like the shorter ones because they don't extend beyond the bow and they are overall easier to manage in the kayak. Typically, I can get well within casting range and still stay well outside spooking range so I find the shorter rods offer plenty of distance along with great accuracy and feel.

All of my fishing from the Commander has been in salty and brackish rivers, creeks, bayous, lakes, marshes, bays, canals, and passes. I stalk and shoot, cast to sign and cast and probe structure. I stake out, drift, and rarely paddle to a spot and wade.

Really, all I'm attempting to do is provide an accurate description of how I use the Commander. You may fly fish in an entirely different way and that's great. I don't want to debate the merits of wading or sight casting or any of that. All I offer is one man's perspective on one kayak. I hope you get many more perspectives about other kayaks to help you make an informed decision on your new kayak.
TexasFlyaker
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Re: Fly fishing Kayak suggestions

Post by TexasFlyaker »

Thank you! This is exactly the type of info I'm looking for.
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GoDoe
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Re: Fly fishing Kayak suggestions

Post by GoDoe »

I fly fish 100 per cent of the time too. Mostly salt but some fresh.

You can't go wrong with a Wilderness Ride 135. Paddles pretty well and is very stable. I stand all the time. Standing takes a little getting used to especially in deep, deeper than 2', of water. Find a used Ride from 2013 to present. The models before 2013 are not designed as well. I had one of those also.

My personal fleet of 4 kayaks contains two Ride 135. I think you can find a used one for between $650 and $800. I am sure there are other kayaks that will work but this one is a keeper. Don't buy a Jackson Cuda. You will not like the stability for standing up and fishing. I had one of those too. Passed it along.
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Re: Fly fishing Kayak suggestions

Post by GoDoe »

There is a Ride 135 on Craigslist in Austin right now for $700 that would fit the bill.
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Re: Fly fishing Kayak suggestions

Post by LUISJG »

I have had plenty of kayaks,
the very best for me has been the MINI X period.
i can seat sideways super stable and easy to carry.
now for a big kayak I loved the native ultimate 12.

.
biggameben
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Re: Fly fishing Kayak suggestions

Post by biggameben »

Check out Diablo paddlesports. Designed specifically for fly fishing texas rivers and lakes. The amigo is a great boat for the money.
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JMS
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Re: Fly fishing Kayak suggestions

Post by JMS »

I think you might be better off buying used, also demo days will be in August for Austin Canoe and Kayak, demo some find the one you like the search for a used one. Good luck


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NativeSon
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Re: Fly fishing Kayak suggestions

Post by NativeSon »

Karstopo,
I know you like your Commander,
but does it have scupper holes to drain off incoming water?
I have a Tarpon 140, and on windy/choppy days it takes in a fair share of water.
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karstopo
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Re: Fly fishing Kayak suggestions

Post by karstopo »

NativeSon wrote:Karstopo,
I know you like your Commander,
but does it have scupper holes to drain off incoming water?
I have a Tarpon 140, and on windy/choppy days it takes in a fair share of water.
You would think that not having the scupper holes would be an issue but so far it hasn't been. I have the Tarpon 140 as well and know what you mean about getting water aboard. Maybe the Commander being an inch plus higher on the gunwales helps. Or maybe it's something else about the Commander's hull design.

I do get a bit of water, paddle drip, some chop, inside. Last time out, I was paddling the ICW and a big something boat came blowing by pushing an enormous wake. I was moving bow first into the wake and got a little water break over the bow and might have gotten a liter of water aboard. I don't even carry a sponge and haven't yet had to dump mid trip. Worst ever was about 2.5 inches inside the hull. That was where I was staked out on some fish on a windy exposed point with the current running in opposition to the wind. The waves got very big and confused. My friend was in a WS ride and we both had to abandon the spot because of the waves. True, his water drained out. Worse case was that I would have to pull over to a shoreline for a water dump, but I chose not to.

Normal chop isn't a problem. Usually, I have a plan for "what ifs". So if the wind gets up and I'm out on some open water, I'll head for a protected shoreline or head in. I'm pretty cautious about putting myself into positions that don't have several good "outs".
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NativeSon
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Re: Fly fishing Kayak suggestions

Post by NativeSon »

Really appreciate all the info, you've just about sold me on a Commander!
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karstopo
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Re: Fly fishing Kayak suggestions

Post by karstopo »

NativeSon wrote:Really appreciate all the info, you've just about sold me on a Commander!
If you like to flyfish while standing, the Commander is well suited for that. First time standing up, I felt a tad unsettled while casting. It took about an hour to get the feel of it. I have pretty average balance. Sitting for long periods bothers my back. A lot of wade fishing can mess with it too. For some reason, standing and balancing and casting in the kayak takes pressure off my back and hips. Maybe it's the give of the water.

But aren't you down in the lower middle coast? There might be a lot more wade friendly areas down there. Up here, most of my close to home areas are unwadeable. So that leaves kayaks, SUP, and skiffs. I've pushed a skiff (small Gheenoe) in soft mud and I just feel it's easier to paddle the Commander than push a skiff for stalking fish. SUP, nice idea, but what if it's windy or choppy? How do you keep the loose line aboard? I have enough trouble on windy days keeping the line inside the Commander. I've improved my line management so that helps. Stripping basket, no thanks. Not any that are attached to me anyways. For me, standing is the way to go while fly fishing at least in the saltwater. I've sat in boats on the local sweet water lake and fly fished. It was short casts and the seat was elevated. I've sat in my Commander and Tarpon and fly cast and it just doesn't do anything for me. Not for very long.

Wading is good. I wade in the surf and fly fish. There are some line management things going on there, but it's enjoyable overall. So is wading in the bay. Wading gives one more control over the stalk and shot typically than in a kayak. I've really tried hard to close that gap. One thing that has helped is developing an offhand cast. The ability to cast with either arm takes being at the semi mercy of the wind angle out of the equation. It was a lot easier learning to cast left handed than the initial learning period right handed. A lot easier. One advantage about the kayak is you are a little higher than wading. Seeing the fish from farther away is always a bonus. I can quickly paddle ahead much faster than if I was wading and then get into position for the shot. There are ways to paddle with fly rod in hand and get into position that way. Shorter fly rods are nice in a kayak if you stand up. Then you are just setting the paddle down with the off hand at the moment of the shot. I can set the paddle down quickly and quietly without even looking most of the time. I've gotten comfortable casting with the kayak at an odd angle in relation to the fish. Sometimes it's hard to get the bow pointed where it would be at the best angle. The fish moved, a fish suddenly appeared, the wind did something, There's something in the way. As long as the shot isn't crazy long, I've gotten better at casting with my torso twisted from my lower body. It's rare when I can't maneuver the kayak to within casting range and remain outside spooking range. Murky water and less than gin clear water helps this probably.


Anyway, that's a lot of information. People fish however they like, wade, sit, stand, and that's totally cool. I'm just trying to give you a picture of how I go about it and what I like to do. I enjoy the heck out of going and trying out stuff. Never would or am I saying the ways I go about fly fishing are better or anything like that. They might be just the same as a million others and probably certainly not original. I like hearing about the details of what other people do. Maybe they are on to something I might want to try. One of the cool things about fishing in general are all the little details that can make a difference. Enjoy whatever kayak you get. You might find one that is 10 times better for your situation than the Commander.
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Fly fishing Kayak suggestions

Post by brentos »

I have the Diablo Amigo. Am exactly your size. Fly fish 80% of the time so stand most of the time. 90% rivers and lakes. 10% salt (wish it was more). I really like it for exactly the reasons you are looking for. Use a Larry chair or a cooler to sit on. Have a longer kayak paddle that I use like a SUP paddle a lot of the time. Use your TKF discount and it gets below $1000 I believe.

Hit up one of the ACK demo days and paddle one along with everything else you are interested in.

I would suggest adding the skeg to help with tracking which also bumps back up to the 1000.

The only other thing I'm still considering - maybe as a second vessel.... is the Bote Rackham. My only concern with it is how it would handle the possible rock bumps on the Guadalupe.
Last edited by brentos on Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Jimbo_47
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Re: Fly fishing Kayak suggestions

Post by Jimbo_47 »

I've had my Commander 120 for a little over three years now and I have to agree with everything said except the claim about no scuppers being an issue.
I have yet to get any water inside my kayak, other than water from my feet getting in, a little paddle drip, or minimal splash over the side which most usually evaporates by the time I'm finished fishing.
If conditions are such where that would ever be a problem, I'm not going to be on the water no matter what kayak I'm in, and I've been in choppy water a few times over the years.
Most people who mention the dreaded scuppers or lack there of, have never owned a hybrid type kayak, or they are just repeating false opinionated reports from past posts on other forums.

Watch this video of a guy in a Commander 120 and another in a WS 140 and keep an eye on the bow of the WS 140.
Fairly choppy water and the Commander seems to deal with it just fine.....You might want to turn off the sound.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ffHg3H4jjE
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karstopo
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Re: Fly fishing Kayak suggestions

Post by karstopo »

Nice video. The video also helps to put to rest the myth that the Commanders are slow.
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Re: Fly fishing Kayak suggestions

Post by Shane »

I am a fly fisherman as well (fly only). I have a couple of kayaks and have fished out of a few different models. My favorite is my Kaku Wahoo. It's great for flyfishing. Very stable. Comfortable seat. Flat, open deck for standing up and/or keeping slack line tangle-free. It tracks very well and is fast on the water. Hull takes waves well and doesn't take on much water in the waves when it's windy. It has plenty of storage in the hull (front and rear). Good space behind the seat to hold a cooler and other stuff. Just a well thought out fishing kayak. I had it on the South Llano last week. It handles moving water just as well as it handles lakes.
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NativeSon
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Re: Fly fishing Kayak suggestions

Post by NativeSon »

karst,
Actually I am in Pearland, and mostly fish the greater Galveston area.
When I have fly fished out of the yak, I have mostly gotten out and waded.
I agree with you, there are many ways to fish.
The Tarpon is perfectly adequate.
My biggest problem is not which boat to use, it is finding/making the time to be on the water, which I have not recently been very good at.
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karstopo
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Re: Fly fishing Kayak suggestions

Post by karstopo »

NativeSon wrote:karst,
Actually I am in Pearland, and mostly fish the greater Galveston area.
When I have fly fished out of the yak, I have mostly gotten out and waded.
I agree with you, there are many ways to fish.
The Tarpon is perfectly adequate.
My biggest problem is not which boat to use, it is finding/making the time to be on the water, which I have not recently been very good at.
Surely, life gets in the way of fishing. I think I've had the fewest trips on the water this year in 10 years. Just when I think I'll get to go, something needing immediate attention comes up. I've got something for at least the next five weekends and portions of the week that probably rules out any fishing. If I'm lucky, I'll get a quick afternoon trip in here or there. If only I could be a child less, orphan, bachelor, that is independently wealthy I'd get to fish a whole lot more. Since I'm none of those things, finding fishing time is tough.
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NativeSon
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Re: Fly fishing Kayak suggestions

Post by NativeSon »

It is comforting to know that I am not the only one faced with this dilemma.
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