WYE 13-6 and custom SOT in FOAM

TexaRican
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WYE 13-6 and custom SOT in FOAM

Post by TexaRican »

Starting a new project this weekend to replenish my fleet. I've been wanting to build a boat with the blue foam panels from Lowes for a long time. Seeing the one ReelBigReel did pushed me over the edge. So, I sold the last pirogue I built and determined to come up with a family fleet. I want something sleek yet stable and set up for solo fishing. That one will be a SOT that I have designed (in my head). However, the first order of business is to build another boat that will allow me to paddle with my daughter or solo. Eventually, I hope my wife and daughter will paddle it so stability is the top priority. Matt came through with the drawings just as quick as I requested them and I got started Friday night.

Cutting and layout could not be more simple. In fact, with my back aching after drawing all the lines, I called in a helper to handle the utility knife.
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This foam can be a little ornery at times though. For no apparent reason, it might ball up or tear out during a cut. The best thing you can do is stop immediately and cut from the other direction. Go slow and make several light passes. Most of our cuts were very clean. One tip I discovered is that applying a little pressure with a ball point pen while marking the layout lines helps tremendously. It puts a slight groove in the foam that the utility knife tends to follow.
Here you can see the method I used on the curves. It was nice to be able to just push in some finish nails by hand and then clamp my batten to them.
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First panel is done and I've cut out all the parts. My back is sore and I'm not setting any artificial deadlines on this one. Just taking my time and trying to avoid mistakes. I'll be glassing the interior side of the panels before assembly with 6oz. Then I plan to run biaxial tape on the fillets. I'm on track to glass up the first panels this weekend but I'm taking my kid fishing first!
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Last edited by TexaRican on Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WYE 13-6 in FOAM

Post by makenmend »

thats definitley a plan for stability, whatching with great interest.

MM
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Re: WYE 13-6 in FOAM

Post by TexaRican »

It struck me today that since I'm doing 2 boats and know one design very well, it makes sense to do that one first. That way, I know how the panels need to fit and should be better prepared to tackle any modifications needed as a result of the foam being thicker than plywood.
So, I did the layout and cut out parts today for my SOT, which is going to be based on a basic 3 panel. Got the bottom spliced up and curing. Pics tomorrow.
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Re: WYE 13-6 in FOAM

Post by RedWolf »

Biggest thing to remember when cutting foam is to keep your blade ultra sharp, once it starts to dull just the tiniest bit, time to change it out. If the blade has dull spots or edges, it can cause the balling and tearing of the foam that you described above.
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Re: WYE 13-6 in FOAM

Post by RealBigReel »

RedWolf wrote:Biggest thing to remember when cutting foam is to keep your blade ultra sharp, once it starts to dull just the tiniest bit, time to change it out. If the blade has dull spots or edges, it can cause the balling and tearing of the foam that you described above.
X2

And love to see how this comes out.
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Re: WYE 13-6 in FOAM

Post by TexaRican »

Just doing a little bit at a time, hoping to get to a point where I can make some real progress on Saturday. Just when I got set up with an extra splicing station outside yesterday, we got a really nice storm. I'll take the rain!!!!

Foam is about $10 per sheet, very low cost compared with other building materials. A side benefit is that you get 2 nice 4X8 sheets of plastic off each panel and they come in handy for all sorts of things. (yeah, I'm cheap :oops: )
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Parts for the 3 panel/SOT cut out.
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Spliced the bottom panel, both sides. Making good use of my freshly filled hurricane cans - hope I don't need them this year for their intended purpose.

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Glassed 1 side with leftover from my last build. I have enough scraps left to splice the other panels but then I'll be waiting for a new order to arrive before I can go further. Trying U.S. Composites this time. They were significantly less money for a 1.5 gallon kit than the Marine Epoxy I've been ordering from another supplier.

With 1 side done, this panel is still very flexible but my plan for this boat will give it lots of extra strength with the cockpit buildup. Put on a fill coat this morning.

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Re: WYE 13-6 in FOAM

Post by bowgarguide »

What thickness foam are you using?
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Re: WYE 13-6 in FOAM

Post by TexaRican »

bowgarguide wrote:What thickness foam are you using?
Ron
1/2" - I did not see much benefit in going to the 3/4". If anything, the thickness of the foam is going to cause problems with plans that were designed for 1/4" ply. I'm going to have to bevel some edges I think. Didn't think the 3/4" foam would produce much extra strength but it would make mating the seams up that much more difficult.
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Re: WYE 13-6 in FOAM

Post by TexaRican »

Benefit of having a home office - I spent 15 minutes before work splicing the side panels, then was able to flip them and complete the splices at lunch. Tonight I came up with enough leftover cloth to finish glassing the inside so I'm on track to tack the hull together in the next day or so.

What I wouldn't give for an air conditioned shop though. At 8:15 it was still 110 at 65% humidity in my garage :roll: I'm using slow hardener but the mix starts heating up before I'm even done stirring. Did both panels non-stop but did it in 4 separate small mixes. Would have been nice to have a helper with a squeegee.

Guru question: what is going to happen to the sweat drops that fell on my wetted glass?

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I'm going to cut these panels down about 2 inches. Since this is a SOT, I want it low and sleek. Wish I had remembered this step before glassing but that is what I get for working from plans in my head :roll:
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Re: WYE 13-6 and custom SOT in FOAM

Post by TexaRican »

Had my alarm set for jogging at 5:45am but found my way into the garage instead 8) Got the side panels trimmed down and prepped for tacking the hull together, which commenced on my lunch break.

I really like this build method. NO STITCHES!!! Everything is held together with duck tape. Luckily my kiddo was home to help me and we got everything looking nice and straight.
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My basic setup for those not familiar with this process. I save drinking cups, yogurt cups, just about any plastic container that can be cleaned out and used for mixing epoxy.
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Buy the pumps! I rarely measure epoxy. One pump yellow, two pumps clear - pretty simple.
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Wood flour in my goopie mix will be the only wood on this boat.
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I put mine down with a plastic spoon.
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I see lots of builders taping their fillets. Great for pretty cedar boats but not necessary here. Just clean up the excess with a craft stick before it hardens. This is going to be a work boat finish with non-skid paint inside. These are just tacks to set the basic hull shape and will be covered over tonight. Plus, most of these seams will be hidden from view when the boat is done.
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Nice having some help!
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Re: WYE 13-6 and custom SOT in FOAM

Post by TexaRican »

Learning lots about using foam. First off, as much as I hate to say it, the pink foamular product from HD is superior to the blue stuff from Lowes. I'm gonna shop McCoys and other places to try and find the pink stuff. Had 1 sheet laying around from a project years ago and decided to use it.
Perhaps I just got a bad batch of the blue styrofoam but you can see flow lines in some of the panels. It just seems to be inconsistent in it's density. I keep fresh blades in the utility knife but every once in a while, it will just bounce and ball up during a cut. The pink foam cuts like butter and even breaks clean. Amazing difference in cut edges from the pink to the blue.

Anyway, bulkheads are in and the cockpit is braced and covered. I'm 4 layers of foam thick in places that will need to support my weight. I'm also planning for the scuppers to go through those areas of solid foam. All interior seams are braced with 6" wide biaxial fg tape. This boat is already very ridged and I have not glassed the hull yet!
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Score! Dollar General has 2 packs of sanding sponges. Should have bought all they had since these are 4x the price at the hardware stores.
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Departure from my previous builds where I've drilled a hole through the end pour. This is a quality stainless steel u-bolt set into about 2 inches of epoxy goop in the end pour. I wanted something I could run a chain through to lock the boat up.
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I've got lots of shaping to do - plan to soften all the lines on this boat. This is scary stuff using a belt sander because it just eats through the material so fast but I don't have the patience to do it by hand. Just taking the bulk off with the sander and then finishing with the sanding sponges.
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Re: WYE 13-6 and custom SOT in FOAM

Post by RealBigReel »

[quote="TexaRican"]I've got lots of shaping to do - plan to soften all the lines on this boat. This is scary stuff using a belt sander because it just eats through the material so fast but I don't have the patience to do it by hand. Just taking the bulk off with the sander and then finishing with the sanding sponges.

I used a belt sander rarely on my project and that was usually when I had something more than Styrofoam to sand. 60 grit was plenty quick enough for me.
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Re: WYE 13-6 and custom SOT in FOAM

Post by TexaRican »

RealBigReel wrote:
TexaRican wrote:I've got lots of shaping to do - plan to soften all the lines on this boat. This is scary stuff using a belt sander because it just eats through the material so fast but I don't have the patience to do it by hand. Just taking the bulk off with the sander and then finishing with the sanding sponges.

I used a belt sander rarely on my project and that was usually when I had something more than Styrofoam to sand. 60 grit was plenty quick enough for me.
I've re-read your build a few times now :D You mentioned the bruising and that has been the biggest headache so far. I glassed the interior side of the panels before assembly so that looks nice but the exterior has taken some good dings already. I laminated an extra layer of railing along the cockpit and used strips of thick cardboard to keep my spring clamps from pressing into the foam too much but they still left dents so I'll be mixing some fairing compound up before I get to glass the outside of the hull.

So very glad I started with the 3 panel. I'm actually having second thoughts about the WYE now. I'm 100% certain I will build the WYE, just not sure I want to do it in foam now :oops: Maybe I'll feel differently by the weekend when I think this first boat should be to paint stage.
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Re: WYE 13-6 and custom SOT in FOAM

Post by TexaRican »

Got the cockpit rails glassed with 6" biax tape last night and put a fill coat on this morning. This evening I was finally able to flip the boat (Oh yeah baby, it is light as a feather 8) ) and started working the exterior seams. On the interior I did a really thick fillet topped with the 6" tape so I'm confident my seams are really strong.
This is what the exterior looks like.
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A couple of scary passes with the belt sander and it looks like this.
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Then a good half hour of foam sanding sponges, followed by a fairing mix to fill any remaining gaps.
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Tomorow, I'll hit the bow and stern with the tape for the extra wear and tear they will see. Then I'll glass over the entire hull with 6oz fabric.
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Re: WYE 13-6 and custom SOT in FOAM

Post by Dogpaddlin »

Very Cool build!!! You are not far from me, we will have to get together and drown some bait once you have her done.
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Re: WYE 13-6 and custom SOT in FOAM

Post by TexaRican »

Dogpaddlin wrote:Very Cool build!!! You are not far from me, we will have to get together and drown some bait once you have her done.
I'm up for that. This boat has me very excited to start yak fishing again. I'll definitely be making some coast runs this fall. Got a new trailer too that just needs a little rigging to haul 2 or 3 yaks.
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Re: WYE 13-6 and custom SOT in FOAM

Post by bowgarguide »

Man thats lookiing great , enjoying your build.
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Re: WYE 13-6 and custom SOT in FOAM

Post by TexaRican »

I thought I had used 6oz glass on the interior side of the panels but that was leftover from my last build. That came from another supplier and now I'm wondering if it was really 6oz because last night I opened a new role of 6oz from US Composites and found out it is much thicker. Dang, it really soaks up the epoxy! I'm ok with it however because this boat is turning out super strong. Got a the hull glassed last night and a fill coat on this morning. I'll probably wait until after work today and give it a good sanding then one final coat before I flip and start on the decks. Saturday I'll cut hatch holes and also cut my scuppers and float test before I glass the cockpit in. The scuppers are going through 4 solid layers of foam which I think will be more than enough to keep the cockpit dry but no sense in sealing things up before I know for sure.

I'll also have to place another epoxy order to have enough for the WYE. I'm happy with both the resin and the cloth from US Composites. They packaged everything very well. I think I'm getting a little more working time from the slow hardener too.

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I did not really have a weight budget in mind when starting this build but now I'm just giddy over the prospects. Weighed it before I started the hull glass and I was just under 15lbs. Thinking I might end up somewhere in the 22lb range when all is said and done. I'd be elated with anything 25 or under!
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Re: WYE 13-6 and custom SOT in FOAM

Post by RealBigReel »

TexaRican wrote:I did not really have a weight budget in mind when starting this build but now I'm just giddy over the prospects. Weighed it before I started the hull glass and I was just under 15lbs. Thinking I might end up somewhere in the 22lb range when all is said and done. I'd be elated with anything 25 or under!
SANDIE's hull weight was under 25 lbs, and it has a tumblehome. So don't be too surprised.
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Re: WYE 13-6 and custom SOT in FOAM

Post by TexaRican »

RealBigReel wrote:
TexaRican wrote:I did not really have a weight budget in mind when starting this build but now I'm just giddy over the prospects. Weighed it before I started the hull glass and I was just under 15lbs. Thinking I might end up somewhere in the 22lb range when all is said and done. I'd be elated with anything 25 or under!
SANDIE's hull weight was under 25 lbs, and it has a tumblehome. So don't be too surprised.
Yeah, my hopes are dimming with each fill coat. Gave it a light sanding yesterday evening and a fill coat, then had to repeat the process today and I don't think I'm done. This cloth is just too thick and I'm not about to roll on a waffle print paint job. Gonna keep sanding and filling until it's smooth. I was hoping to have the hull flipped by now but no sense rushing.
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Re: WYE 13-6 and custom SOT in FOAM

Post by RealBigReel »

TexaRican wrote:
RealBigReel wrote:
TexaRican wrote:I did not really have a weight budget in mind when starting this build but now I'm just giddy over the prospects. Weighed it before I started the hull glass and I was just under 15lbs. Thinking I might end up somewhere in the 22lb range when all is said and done. I'd be elated with anything 25 or under!
SANDIE's hull weight was under 25 lbs, and it has a tumblehome. So don't be too surprised.
Yeah, my hopes are dimming with each fill coat. Gave it a light sanding yesterday evening and a fill coat, then had to repeat the process today and I don't think I'm done. This cloth is just too thick and I'm not about to roll on a waffle print paint job. Gonna keep sanding and filling until it's smooth. I was hoping to have the hull flipped by now but no sense rushing.
The first coat on the SANDIE's bottom was microballoon filler with graphite powder for color. 2nd coat was straight Epoxy/Graphite. Not perfect but not bad.
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Re: WYE 13-6 and custom SOT in FOAM

Post by TexaRican »

Ok, getting closer now. I have a light sanding to do tonight then I'll roll one more coat on the entire hull. Still have to finish off the scuppers - that is a whole process I'll try to document with some pics tonight. Then I have the seat base to finish up and glue in. Should be float testing before the weekend.
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Re: WYE 13-6 and custom SOT in FOAM

Post by TexaRican »

Ok, did some more work today. I have a flat cockpit that is 5 layers of foam thick. In the future, I'll probably come up with some way of sloping the cockpit away from the paddler that drains water down to the scuppers. For this one however, I just wanted something simple and sturdy. I'll have a permanent seat base that elevates me above any water that comes in.

I've got 4 scuppers total. Now, getting nice neat holes in this foam is a challenge. A drill or hole cutter will just tear the crud out of it. I practiced several methods on scrap and found a method I like. First I drill a small hole, no bigger than a pencil. Get out the propane torch and heat up a small metal rod. I inserted that red hot rod (don't breath the fumes) into the small hole - just a dip in and out. This foam melts easy but it will keep melting a little after you remove the heat so be careful. It make the hole nice and smooth.
After that I decided I wanted to smooth it up even more so I created a drum sanding tool of sorts.
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I'll come back tomorrow with a thick fairing mix and try to completely coat the inside of the holes, then glass over them. This is a slow process but I want these strong. Unlike plastic kayak scuppers, since these are through 5 layers of laminated foam, there is not much chance of leaking but I want to be certain.
Rolled one last coat on the whole boat. It will need a good sanding before I paint. I'll cut the hatches in the next day or so.
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Re: WYE 13-6 and custom SOT in FOAM

Post by RealBigReel »

Project is moving along nicely.
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Re: WYE 13-6 and custom SOT in FOAM

Post by TexaRican »

Ok, disregard everything I wrote above about scuppers, cutting method, simplicity of a flat cockpit, etc :roll:

The scuppers were ugly and I did not like the float test. Like many plastic SOTs I have owned, the rear scuppers, nearest my fat butt, took on just a small amount of water. This is while sitting still. I'm sure it would suck out while paddling. However, I don't like the way the flat cockpit lets the water slosh around.
I've cut the scuppers again, pretty clean with a doorknob hole cutter. Then I put some bracing in that slopes the cockpit to the front and rear scuppers. Kind of hard to explain so I'll get some pics tomorrow. Frustrating that I had already glassed the floor in. I guess that will just make the boat that much stronger. :wink:
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