TexasKayakFisherman.com est. 2000

Kayak fishing the Lone Star State...


By RealBigReel
#1522462
Starting a new project in my quest for the Ultimate fishing kayak.
The name will be BASS, unless I come up with something better.
This one will be 14' long (not counting rudder) 28" wide.
1.5" rocker.
3 panel design, with tumblehome.

JPEG from my TurboCad file:

Image

What's new:
It will be strip built out of 1/4" thick "Light Balsa" (6-10 pounds per cubic foot). Projected hull weight is under 30 lbs.
Fully glassed on the inside. Kevlar on the outside.
Reduced fineness ratio will make the draft just over 3" at nominal load.
Slightly narrower than GAR
New short rudder design. Lighter, easier to lift. Has a center only pulley. retracts 180°.
Hatches similar to Gerald's Triple X. Better seals than GAR all around though.
Integral externally mounted Fish finder Transducer. (For best data.)
Tunnel through SOT area, to prevent water from accumulating anywhere, and to make it easy to sponge it out.
Flush, trolling rod holders.
Stouter gunwale, and parallel, so that a sliding Xwing like instrument panel could be added.

Old stuff: (same as GAR)
Hobie Mirage drive with ST Turbo fins
SOT cockpit
Bait tank with self priming fresh water pump
Fish finder
Plenty of storage
Comfortable seat
Pickup transportable
Speed and agility of the 3 panel design


Comments and suggestion welcome.
Last edited by RealBigReel on Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:23 pm, edited 13 times in total.
User avatar
By gerald
#1522495
Alright! I love these projects. Lots of good ideas and innovation. This is the way it's suppose to be! I picked up several good ideas from the last boat. I'll incorporate some of the ideas in future boats. Where are you getting the balsa?
By RealBigReel
#1522662
gerald wrote:Alright! I love these projects. Lots of good ideas and innovation. This is the way it's suppose to be! I picked up several good ideas from the last boat. I'll incorporate some of the ideas in future boats. Where are you getting the balsa?



http://www.specializedbalsa.com/product ... sheets.php

Quite reasonable considering what you are getting. Will be about the same cost as if I built it out of marine ply but a lot lighter!

"Simplificate, and add lightness." (Billy Mitchell)

bowgarguide wrote::lol: :lol:
RBR I think your hooked ,
The never ending search for the perfect boat.
Ron
What do you mean bye tunnel thrue?


The spaces under the SOT area will be open to both the fore and aft ends of the kayak so that water will not be trapped inside should it ever get there. Although water should not get there with the way I am going to do this boat. I am going to take extra care to make sure that all joints are solid and will get epoxy and fabric inside and out. Sort of hybrid between stitch and glue and strip built with a little high tech added in for good measure.
By Harold Ray
#1524555
RBR,

What do you do for a living? You sure sound like you know what you are talking about. How about you, Gerald, and I know about Ron. He told me about himself while we were on the Brazos. I really am impressed with you guys and your abilities and broad knowledge!!!

Ray
By RealBigReel
#1524840
Harold Ray wrote:RBR,

What do you do for a living? You sure sound like you know what you are talking about.
Ray


I am currently a machinist. I was formerly an Aerospace engineer with a number of successful designs operational in air and space. Working my way down the corporate ladder.
By Harold Ray
#1524849
I was formerly an Aerospace engineer with a number of successful designs operational in air and space. Working my way down the corporate ladder.


That's what I expected with the way you were working and thinking, an engineer! :D

Ray
User avatar
By bowgarguide
#1524931
RBR
I have a couple questions for you,these arnt criticism in any way I am just curious.
Why the sot cockpit? I have never gotten that much water in my yak and have paddled out of some pretty good storms and waves, a 12 volt bilge would take care of anything you had in the cockpit. The boat would be lighter,a more comfortable sitting position,more room for storage.From reading on here a big percentage of the problems folks have is with scuppers.

I am really curiouse about your reasons.
I like watching you put your designs together :D
Ron
By RealBigReel
#1525076
bowgarguide wrote:RBR
I have a couple questions for you,these aren't criticism in any way I am just curious.
Why the SOT cockpit? I have never gotten that much water in my yak and have paddled out of some pretty good storms and waves, a 12 volt bilge would take care of anything you had in the cockpit. The boat would be lighter,a more comfortable sitting position,more room for storage.From reading on here a big percentage of the problems folks have is with scuppers.

I am really curiouse about your reasons.
I like watching you put your designs together :D
Ron


Good questions:
I don't want to have to depend on a bilge pump to keep it dry, and a bilge pump will not keep all of the water out. (Already have a bait tank pump.)
I can't see it being any more or less comfortable, especially since the Mirage drive means a set seat position anyway. I sit on a 2" thick coiffed pad.
The weight difference is negligible as is the additional storage since only the cockpit area is SOT. Fore and aft areas are not SOT style.
The seat back is a bulkhead, which stiffens the cockpit gunwales. The knee support is also a bulkhead.
The Mirage drive needs to be in a well anyway. (This is probably the biggest SOT design driver right here.)
I don't know what you consider pretty good waves but I can run in wind and waves that most kayakers would not try. The Mirage drive will easily power through wind and waves that I wouldn't consider with a paddle alone. I have had waves breaking over the bow enough to keep a 500 GPH pump busy.

Yes scuppers can be a big problem in any kayak including all of the plastic SOTs. (Which is why a scupper cart is a bad idea.) The seat scupper on GAR leaked after numerous attempts to stop it. Now I understand what it was doing and I have it operational with no leaks. (That is also where I have my fish finder transducer installed now. Right under the seat.) Any scupper is a stress point. There is no material (it is a hole) and they are in a place where generally the load is higher than elsewhere and they create a stiff point in an otherwise flexible structure. So a proper scupper needs to take those problems into account.
BTW If you had a look at Gerald's SOT you can see that he neatly avoided the problems associated with scuppers by making the top to bottom connection flexible.
User avatar
By bowgarguide
#1525227
RBR
Thats a good point on the scupper. Most folks dont realize that a stiff point in a flexible area means trouble.
I have been on the lake in 3 to 3.5 whitecapps ,rough enough that some boats came out to see if I was alright. I had very little water in the cockpit ,mostly from paddle drip and spray from the wind blowing so hard.
I have a couple advantages over your boat ,one is length ,so I have a lot more boat to ride up over the waves and when waves are breaking over the bow a lot of deck to shed the water. most sea kayaks are pretty long and built for rough water.The second is no low decks .
I like your ideals and will be watching your build.
Ron
Thanks for the response. I learn a lot picking other folks heads for there reasoning on a project.
By RealBigReel
#1541226
10/7/10 Today I ordered the Balsa from:

http://www.specializedbalsa.com/product ... sheets.php

and the composite materials from:

http://www.uscomposites.com/

for BASS. Hope I got it all so I don't have to order anything else.
Total of the 2 orders came to just over 600 bucks.
Work will start next week.
Modified the jpeg in the start of this thread to reflect the current design.
Note:
Latest rudder design.
New water level rod holders for trolling.
Fish finder transducer well under seat.

10/12/10 The Composite order will arrive tomorrow.
The Balsa order won't ship until Monday 10/18/10, because I ordered the light stuff. Worth the wait and the price differential.
Laid out the hull bottom outline on the table so I will know where to lay the balsa strips. Marked the hull every foot for accuracy. In the past I have used on 3 or 4 points per quarter but this time the shape is control by a B-spline not an arc.
10/20/10 I have received the composites needed to start this project. Balsa will arrive tomorrow via Fedex signature required.
Last edited by RealBigReel on Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
By gerald
#1541260
RealBigReel wrote:BTW If you had a look at Gerald's SOT you can see that he neatly avoided the problems associated with scuppers by making the top to bottom connection flexible.


I think the flexible tube method worked ok and is viable. I didn't think that I would ever build another SOT but because of the unexpected interest I am kicking around another design in my head that has the scuppers integral with the top, removable, SOT pan. That way the hull will never see a hole. Preliminary thoughts only. Some engineering and design problems to think about....

Man...you're just as hooked as I am. Don't you just love design, engineering, and application....
By RealBigReel
#1548212
10/25/10 Have the 2 major material orders for this kayak in. Balsa order arrive last Thursday while I was fishing the Brazos in GAR. I work weekends so today was the first I have had a chance to get after it.

Several days ago I laid out the pattern on my kayak building table. Thought I had it all set up to go to work today. Then I noticed that the center of the table buckled up about 1/4 of an inch. What to do? I thought of taking some 2X4s and some 1/2" blocks and using screws to suck it down. But then I decided to pull it apart, turn the sections over and screw it back down. So that is what I did then I set it up so that I have just over inch and half of fore aft rocker and about 1/4" of port starboard rocker. I then redrew the pattern of the bottom of the hull on the table. This kayak will be built on the table with the rocker controlled by the shape of the table. I used a plumb line stretched tight to determine the fore aft rocker. I had a left over end of roll of shrink wrap that I got from work, which I stapled on the table. I stapled the center balsa boards down the then laid the rest of the boards in around those with just a few staples to keep things tight. Using the pattern drawn on the table and a Open Office Calc spreadsheet that was worked up for that purpose, I was able to lay the balsa sheets down in an efficient pattern.

Image

Then I clamped it down with several pieces of scrap 2X4 about 20 inches long, every couple of feet or so along the length, to make the balsa sheets lay flat

Then I also laid out the seat back bulkhead, the knee bulkhead and the forward bulkhead.

Image

Then I tack glued both the hull bottom and the bulkheads.
After these cure. I will fill any areas that need it with epoxy and micro balloons. After that comes the fiberglass. Then I start cutting and fitting parts together.

Couple of things I found out today:
Balsa sheets .25"X.4"X4' are not necessarily straight. They can be as much as a 1/8" crooked. So a little judicious selection and placement is in order.
I ordered mostly pieces 4' long but what I got was 49" long and very rough cut on the ends.
Balsa of this weight (6 to 10 lbs/cubic foot) can be cut with a utility knife quite easily. But if the knife is not real sharp it will tear on the back side of the cut. So I cut it about 1/2 way through and then turn it over and cut it through from the other side for a cleaner cut, or cut with a hacksaw blade saw.
Last edited by RealBigReel on Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:56 pm, edited 3 times in total.
By RealBigReel
#1548306
bowgarguide wrote:RBR
What are you gluing the balsa with?
Looking good
Ron



US Composites Epoxy 150 3:1 , brushed on. I have just a little of this left. Mostly from now on it will be Epoxy 635 3:1
Contrary to instructions, Epoxy 150 can be brushed into cloth but it takes a little more work than Epoxy 635.
Last edited by RealBigReel on Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
By RealBigReel
#1548844
Got the top of the bottom and the bulkheads Glassed yesterday.Got the Bulkheads trimmed and set in place today.

Image

The reddish stuff is Phenolic Microballoons mixed into the 635 epoxy.
Soon as this cures, I'll add another layer up the side. There will be 4 layers of 2" to make the side 8".
Lessons learned.
Epoxy does not stick to shrink wrap. This stuff releases even better than Saran warp.
Phenolic Microballoons makes a smooth filler for epoxy, is lighter and has a longer cure time than Bondo. The cure time is the same as whatever epoxy is being used. And of course the strength/weight (and viscosity) can be adjusted as required.
Epoxy does not penetrate very deep into any wood including Balsa.
Cutting Fiberglass laminated Balsa requires a fine tooth blade like a hacksaw and patience or it will break apart. Saws very easily, a little too easy.

11/1/10 Got up early and got to work on BASS. Put the 4th and final strip up the side. That makes the sides 8". Then I cut out the pieces for the seat. Been working on this idea in my mind for weeks now and have rejected all of the ideas as too difficult. The solution came to me yesterday. Laid it out and it worked good so I tack glued it up along with the 4th layer of the hull sides. Fortunately the garage is warmer than the outside this morning at 55°F. Now I get to do the lawn while these cure.

11/2/10 More epoxy and "glass" to lock all the parts together. Starting to look like a kayak. Structure now has the integrity of a beer can. It can be picked up by one end, although it flexes.

Image

The seat bottom is sitting on the table beside the seat back. Soon as the inside of the hull and the seat bottom cure, it will get installed, hopefully later today.
Epoxy and Microballoons sands cleaner than Bondo.
Last edited by RealBigReel on Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
By bowgarguide
#1551316
RBR
The warmer the epoxy is the more it will penetrate and if you mix a small amount of acetone in epoxy it will penetrate a lot more. But is extremely flammable
Ron
By RealBigReel
#1552123
Installed the seat and the calf support deck today.
Seat is reinforced with Graphite scrap left over from the paddle I built. Needs a little sanding and cleanup. That area will be covered with a coiffed seat pad.
Mixed Glass Microballoons with Phenolic to get a color close to the blond Balsa.

Image

Also worked on the rudder and the Tumblehome.
By RealBigReel
#1552164
Dogpaddlin wrote:RBR,

Are you still planning on using kevlar for the exterior of the hull? I am interested to see the application process. Keep up the good work!


Yes the hull exterior will be Kevlar clear up onto the Tumblehome. Not the hatches or decks though.
I am not aware of anything special required other than scissors. Although I know Kevlar sands really hard.
User avatar
By gerald
#1553801
Kevlar saturates fine. Some cloths--like carbon fiber--tend to plump a bit when saturated. This give a resin rich layup which you really don't want if you can avoid it. That's one of the reasons you might want to vacuum bag--though it's hard for a wood composite hull. I just happen to be in the process of putting together a fine vacuum bag system--for my paddles, but it's big enough to do hulls...

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