I am putting the finishing touches on the Brazos River Rocket and have started thinking about my next project (which I intend to keep as my own). I have been leaning towards a canoe and have narrowed it down to three options. Tell me what you think, I fully expect Pogo to have a lot to say about one of them .
I am looking for something to use on small creeks and rivers (like the Navasota, Spring Creek, etc), and the occasional visit to Gibbons Creek or Conroe. I need it to hold my 200lbs plus enough gear for an occasional weekend river trip. I want something relatively responsive (translation = I don't want a slow boat).
So lets hear what you have to say...
Last edited by Dogpaddlin on Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I am no Pogo (thank god, we only need one) but I love my canoes. Currently have 4 in the stable. All those canoes look nice, but depending on what you want to do with it some will be better than others. That Merlin is a great all 'round vessel, stable enough for fishing, will carry a good load for camping plenty manuverable (sp?). In fact, I just got my plans for it the other day. Once I build my boat house, it will begin. That second boat reminds me of my Wenonah Advantage, billed as a fast day tripper. It is indeed, a bit more responsive (tippy in other words) but it is a pleasure to paddle, not great in choppy bays, but a good paddler can handle it. Surprisingly agile when it is leaned on edge. I have fished out of mine, just be mindful of what your doing. The first boat I am not sure about, none the less canoes are my paddle craft of choice, been everywhere in one from Seattle to Port Aransas and lots of places in between. They have their advantages........and disadvantages, but overall canoes are just cool.
If that Merlin that you're looking at is the same one that Pogo's paddling, that gets my vote. That thing is sweet, and a beautiful piece of work, as well.
I know less about canoes than Ron and Canoe Nut, so listen to them. All I know is love my Merlin.
But please stand by while I repeat, with emphasis, what I consider to be the single biggest difference between canoes and kayaks, as I know them: the seat position. In kayaks, pirogues, double paddle solo canoes, etc., you're sitting squarely on your a.... um, sit bones. In a canoe you're sitting up higher, and have the ability to get your feet under you. This one little fact makes a whole world of difference to me. All other attributes of boat types can be compared except for this one. Being able to get your feet under you makes it ten times easier to step in or out of your boat, which enables you to keep your feet dry more often than not. The rest of you stays dry too, no wet butt in canoes. You can stand up and sit down super easy. It just makes everything so much easier.
That's actually a pretty nice looking boat in the last link you posted. But I sure wouldn't put a seat in like that in it; for my money you'd drop the biggest advantage the design offers for no good reason (other than you refuse to learn how to handle boats).
Pogo
I sure am not an expert on anything,and like you my comments come from my own experiences,
I own two boats ,one a perow and the other the t-v that you can sit a seat up in. in fact on the T-v it is set up just about even with the gunnels,I can stand in the perow I have owned several canoes and you better stay on your knees are flat on the floor in a couple of the solo ones I had.
There really isnt much difference in the design of any one type, I guess decked and undecked
is the biggest difference.
I think the traditional shape canoes look awesome ,but getting back to the phrase location sensitive,they dont work well for me in my area,they catch more wind,single paddle doesnt work as well in shallows.
my 2 cents worth
Ron
You've got 3 good shoices in your original post. Just looking at the line the 17 foot day tripper will be the fastest and track better than the other 2. A little deadrise full length can make a design like this track a little too well. It looks like the desgned waterline takes full advantage of the 17 foot length.
My personal choice would be the merlin. It's a good compromise (for me) of ultimate speed and turning ability. I like a flat bottom canoe and it loooks an awful lot like the 16 foot guide canoes I used to build. Mine were 3 inches wider.
I've said this before--if I could have only one boat it would be a canoe. Of those you and others have suggested I lean toward the Bear Mountain canoes. Well...alright...I lean by far toward the Bear Mountain boats. Either style depending upon what you are planning to do.
gerald wrote: Either style depending upon what you are planning to do.
I would use the boat primarily for exploring small creeks and rivers with an occasional river camping trip. When I fish I tend to find a place to beach the boat and fish from solid ground. I like the looks of the 17' Solo, but I am not sure I want to have to store/transport a boat that long . I would also like to be able to paddle it with either a single blade or double blade, and would hope to be able to keep up with a kayak if I was out with someone.
I am still new enough to this stuff that I cannot decipher everything I need to from the drawings (i.e. tell how a boat is going to handle just looking at the shape), that is where y'all come in
I will add that part of the reason I want to build a canoe is simple vanity, I think they are beautiful boats and I want one I know no matter what I build I will be happy with it so I should just pick something and get started, but that is not my nature
Well I'll say this: in Pogo World there's actually an awful lot to be said for running around with a classic cedar strip canoe on the racks. You wouldn't believe the attention my Merlin attracts everywhere I go. The fun isn't about having my ego puffed up all to hell (I know where I stand as a craftsman), but rather, in meeting so many cool and interesting people who just walk up and start talking so often. Every great once in a while it gets old; someone walks up and says "that sure is a pretty boat" for about the millionth time, and I think about replying "yesss, I know!" But it ain't very often I *really* feel that way. In fact, it's a major joy in my little life. And I'm not even very sociable. And what's more, I'm just talking about totin' the boat around -- the fun really gets started when you're on the water....
I didn't want to mess with no canoe for the longest time, but had two different friends ragging on me to give it a whirl. One is Canoe Nut, and what finally convinced me was watching him keep up with my Outer Island with his single blade and Swift Shearwater. It wasn't a race, but I wasn't slacking my pace for him either. And we were shooting the sheet the whole time, no outa breath exertion on his part. A lot of people, including myself at one time, think canoes are intrinstically slow. It's a myth. Inefficient paddlers with/and/or inefficient equipment is slow. You really don't want to bet the farm you can beat me in a race.
Mastering the single blade is a hoot. Canoe people like to sniff snootily and say stuff like "half the paddle, twice the paddler". I believed 'em when I first heard it since it only made logical sense according to my two eyeballs, and nothing I've experienced since has changed it except I might believe it even more now. One of the things I love most about my canoe and single blade paddle is all the skills I've learned that go such a long way towards refining my kayak technique.
But then, I'm a paddler first and a fisherman second, and that's what sets me apart from virtually all other TKF'ers except for just one or two. I get into the "art of the paddle" as a fun thing big time. I fully expect very few here to understand what I'm talking about half the time, but keep on keeping on just in case somebody comes along who's ..... well, like me, I guess.
Dogpaddlin: For the purposes you have outlined I'd go for the 15' 3" Freedom Solo. I was leaning toward that one anyway (even for me!). I considered shortening the 17' Solo Tripper but just think that the Freedom Solo is the better boat at that length. Should be stable, maneuverable, track well, and have good paddling efficiency. Paddling efficiency translates to ease of paddling--not necessarily speed. Just a really nice design. It won't be a slow boat. Expect a good 4 mph cruise with spurts well above that. 3 mph cruise should be easy. You can paddle with single blade and double blade....though I would urge you to learn how to single blade.
Pogo wrote:Well I'll say this: in Pogo World there's actually an awful lot to be said for running around with a classic cedar strip canoe on the racks. You wouldn't believe the attention my Merlin attracts everywhere I go. The fun isn't about having my ego puffed up all to hell (I know where I stand as a craftsman), but rather, in meeting so many cool and interesting people who just walk up and start talking so often. Every great once in a while it gets old; someone walks up and says "that sure is a pretty boat" for about the millionth time, and I think about replying "yesss, I know!" But it ain't very often I *really* feel that way. In fact, it's a major joy in my little life. And I'm not even very sociable. And what's more, I'm just talking about totin' the boat around -- the fun really gets started when you're on the water....
I can only imagine, every time I take the pirogue it takes me 30 minutes to launch, I am sure it is ten times worse with a full stripped beauty!
Dogpaddlin.... I see you live in Spring. I live fairly close by near Champions off of FM1960.
I have an 8 acre pond in my back yard.
I own a 12 ft. Old town PACK canoe.
If you'd like to give her a paddle...just to see what a boat that size can do...you are welcome here. Such a test might narrow your search towards whatever boat you eventually build.
I do have a lowered seat built in..and I do use a double bladed kayak style paddle. But...there is no earthly reason why you can't simply reverse the boat and paddle while kneeling on the other end.
So, if you are interested in a quick trial fun run...send me a P.M.
regards, Rich
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If that Merlin that you're looking at is the same one that Pogo's paddling, that gets my vote. That thing is sweet, and a beautiful piece of work, as well.
. I would also like to be able to paddle it with either a single blade or double blade, and would hope to be able to keep up with a kayak if I was out with someone. 
