Poling skiff............

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picaroon
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Poling skiff............

Post by picaroon »

Pogo............Gerald ...........How difficult would it be to design a super lite poling skiff about 60" wide and about 15' long..........made super lite of cedar strips with a transom strong enough to handle a 25hp OB motor and Gunnels strong enough to handle a custom made aluminum poling platform..............The hull must not weigh more than 200 lbs. Kevlar construction is OK CAN IT BE DONE ????
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Re: Poling skiff............

Post by ~BUCKSHOT~ »

200 lbs is very light for a skiff even made with kevlar, will be interested to see what the experts have to say about this one!!
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Re: Poling skiff............

Post by TDD »

If they can build a 17' x 22" wide yak that weights 60# then triple the width and use the weight of the extra 2' of length + the 4 sides not used and extra material for curves and use that for the transume etc. ..... how about a plywood poleing skiff with a 10+ hp .... that's something that I would like to build too ......
I'll tell ya what though .. it wouldn't be that hard to build a pirogue that's easy to stand in and build a tunnel hull in the rear for a trolling motor like the OK Torque.
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Re: Poling skiff............

Post by Light Keeper's Kid »

TD wrote: ..... how about a plywood poleing skiff with a 10+ hp .... that's something that I would like to build too ......
I'll tell ya what though .. it wouldn't be that hard to build a pirogue that's easy to stand in and build a tunnel hull in the rear for a trolling motor like the OK Torque.
Both of these are Great Idea's and I'd say tunnel the skiff too :wink:

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Re: Poling skiff............

Post by canoe nut »

Check out Microskiff.com. This site is dedicated to smaller skiffs. Several members have skiffs of Picaroon's desription. They also have a nice review of 25 hp 4-stroke motors, it is a nice site, Florida based.
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Re: Poling skiff............

Post by picaroon »

I have a Curlew with a hull weight of 650 lbs.....about 1,200 lbs as rigged or a little more.......will float in 6" or so, get up in 7" if the bottom is muddy and will run in 3"......I have a place where the water is real shallow at the entrance but gets as deep as 18" further back in the little bay. At times it is absolutely full of reds. I have two kayaks which work but take too much effort for an old guy plus I cannot stand in them............I am going to get something else...................if all else fails I am going to get a small alumnium skiff that I can pull across the hard sand entrance if I have to.......I would rather have a nice little, super lite, wooden skiff that I can put a poling platform on and pole into the area...........
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Re: Poling skiff............

Post by Light Keeper's Kid »

This is a good back water skiff :wink:

Mike
http://www.boatrightmarine.com/cuerpo_g ... modelid=52" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Poling skiff............

Post by barditch »

:shock: JMHO, but, I would think that the weight barrier would preclude the strength requirements, and I agree w/the others that a tunnel would be really beneficial. You've got a good idea though...something to ponder and a goal to be achieved.
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Re: Poling skiff............

Post by gerald »

Well...I believe it can be done. However it is probably not economically feasible considering the cost of comparable boats built in other materials...unless you do it yourself. As far as the design goes I'd have to check on whether the tunnel would be better than the flat bottom. Reason I say this is because back in the seventies I ran rivers in flat bottom johnboats with 10, 15, 20, and 25 horsepower outboard motors. The tunnel is a great concept. You'd think you can raise the motor higher and still get water going over the prop. You can! But the pontoon sections, or down parts of the hull are actually sitting lower in the water than a full flat bottom boat. Kind of a trade off there. We would raise the motors on the transoms of our jon boats and were able to travel in 6" of water up and down rapids at full speed. I'm not sure if this will translate to flats fishing, but the idea is shallowest draft--isn't it. Our best boat was a 16' X 60" aluminum jon boat with a 25 horse Johnson. Later I bought a jet to fit on the bottom of that motor...and even later we went to 6" Berkly Jet Pumps with a snowmobile engine.
Back to the strip boat. I've already had others ask me about building similar boats. We can do it--and I think the 200 pounds is possible. Something like a full pontoon boat would be even easier than a tunnel hull boat. I guess I'd have to say possible but not really feasible.
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Re: Poling skiff............

Post by winojoe »

Hey Paul,
check this out http://www.inshorepowerboats.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; looks like the builders are the guys from eastcape canoe. Dont know what the weight is but looks like you have lots options to control some of the weight. When your ready to beqweath your curlew, I am ready :D , besides she knows me!!! Plus, I'll file for a 401C3 status, under poor-fishing-manager-needs-a-boat.org, if you need a tax deduction, and I'll wash your new boat every week, and bathe your cat.
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Re: Poling skiff............

Post by Pogo »

I echo Gerald's comments: It's definitely doable, but only as a DIY thing. You sure as heck couldn't get me interested in messing with it unless I got personally interested in one for myself. And I'm not interested in motorboats anymore.
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Re: Poling skiff............

Post by picaroon »

POGO............I have a special need for such a boat...........I want to get real far back in a little bay that has a big sand bar at its entrance. That little bay is plum full of reds a certain times of the year and I want something I can stand up in and Pole..I have a Curlew and I am really , really happy with it...........I might try this as a build. I have the woodworking skills and equipment but a little guidance here and there would help.....................

WINOJOE...............I already have you as a dependent with the IRS. Under Obama I just can get away with so much....maybe if I join ACORN............anyway I love you like a son...........
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Re: Poling skiff............

Post by Pogo »

Problem is, someone has to develop the concept into a working reality somewhere along the line. The DIY part becomes mandated (in my opinion) as the research and development department, which is what'll hog all the time in a project such as this. It's true that Gerald or I would have a head start over most folks, but still, either of us would have to take off on a serious tangent to go from kayaks to engineering a motor-powered ultralightweight flats skiff. The actual building would be more or less straightforward.

If someone wants to pay me a fair hourly rate to tackle the problem, I'm on it in a heartbeat. I'd start by studying a hollow core door with renewed interest, and begin researching what the homebuilt aircraft builders and R/C airplane model crowd are doing with foam core composite construction, and go from there.

Just a couple thoughts off the top of my head....
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Re: Poling skiff............

Post by gerald »

Yeah...the design and engineering would be the hard part. Like pogo says--the build would be fairly straight forward--maybe even easy. I'm sure both of us would come up with different designs--I'd adapt from my early experience running rivers in flat bottom boats--but I'm also sure that what either of us came up with would probably work just fine. I am currently involved in two projects (along with working for a living) that take up all my time.
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Re: Poling skiff............

Post by Skinnyfeet »

picaroon wrote:Pogo............Gerald ...........How difficult would it be to design a super lite poling skiff about 60" wide and about 15' long..........made super lite of cedar strips with a transom strong enough to handle a 25hp OB motor and Gunnels strong enough to handle a custom made aluminum poling platform..............The hull must not weigh more than 200 lbs. Kevlar construction is OK CAN IT BE DONE ????

This is close:

http://bateau.com/proddetail.php?prod=FS18" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It has a 54" beam but its 18' long. It says it can handle a poling platform, up to a 25hp, it has a 2.5" draft at 850lbs, and weighs in at 200-250lbs. Pretty darn close to your dream sheet.....maybe you could tweak it a bit to better fit your needs. I'm thinking hard about pulling the trigger and building this one myself.....I've built 2 bateau designs and the plans are easy to read and their support is top notch. Keep us posted on what you decide!
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Re: Poling skiff............

Post by TDD »

I'd say that is very close ...... 2 1/2" :shock: .. and looks like a very straight forward build considering.
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Re: Poling skiff............

Post by picaroon »

That is about what I am looking for................It could probably be built at less that 200 lbs. With a 15hp pullstart/tiller motor and 6 gal of gas it could go just about anywhere I want to go. All I have to do is pull it across sand bars...........Pogo and Gerald can probably give some pointers on how to make it liter.................

I am going to Mansfield in November. There is a guy there that builds wooden Vannoy skiffs......I am going to check him out and probably build something like this starting in Jan...............
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Re: Poling skiff............

Post by Pogo »

I'll take a look when I get some time. I'm fixin' to jump in my canoe and do a little fly fishing here on the South Llano River right now. 8)
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Re: Poling skiff............

Post by gerald »

I did take a quick look at the study drawings of the Bateau boat. Certainly not a bad design at all. Old time construction though--meaning with a wood frame. Again--nothing wrong with that but it's not as quick, strong, nor as light as the more modern S&G method which replaces the wood frame with fiberglass and fillets and design. Lot of great boats built with the old time method though--including some of my earlier ones. This goes for smaller boats. Once you get up into larger boats then you'll see an adaptation of S&G and wood frame.
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Re: Poling skiff............

Post by AyJay »

The bateau designs are all conventional S&G composites. I've built two of their boats. The owner is not a big fan of heavy ply on frame, and I don't think any of his designs are of that type because he is such a big proponent of S&G monocoque hulls. They do use frames and inwales to support the hull shape, but they are integrated ply frames filleted and glassed to the hull panels. Great construction.
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Re: Poling skiff............

Post by JEM »

with the forces a power boat endures, some framing is needed even with fiberglass-wood-core design or you need very thick hull skin. Getting the skin thick enough is easy to do with thicker ply. But getting the thicker ply (like 3/8" to 3/4") to bend for the bow shape is often prohibitive if you don't have a big hull that the panels can bend gradually to take shape. It's quite the balancing act optimizing skin thickness, frame size, etc. Then throw in make the best use of material for the best cost.
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Re: Poling skiff............

Post by gerald »

Certainly I agree that you would need some strength and stress members added to the s&g hull. This is why I say the design and engineering of such a boat would be the most difficult--not the building of it. And the 200 pounds or less figure should be easily attained. From what I've seen of the Bateau boats most of them are not bad at all. Jem also turns out some good designs. Actually there are a lot of good designs available--and some not so good ones. Hard to tell for a builder/paddler with little experience.
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Re: Poling skiff............

Post by JEM »

gerald wrote: And the 200 pounds or less figure should be easily attained.
Definitely could be done. Although at 60" wide and 15' long, a builder will need to be careful not to slather on the epoxy too much.

East Cape Canoes has some designs that are popular with the "skinny water" crowd and could be made via wood and fiberglass.
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