shapening tools

[makenmend]

having read up on scary sharp, I thought I would start up (test) on my newly aquired wood chisels and low angle block plane.is a honing guide a neccesary item or is hand/eye ok ? can't find such beastie on the island.

[barditch]

I have no experience w/the scary sharp procedure, but...I would have to believe that the honing guides would be critical! I use home-made guides on my rig, and I'd be hard pressed to duplicate it freehanded. JMHO!

[Pogo]

I'd have to say using a guide or sharpening jig is at least very wise. If you can't get a sharpening guide by mail order, then make one; there's nothing complicated or mysterious about 'em. The store-bought ones just work very well and don't cost a lot, less than $15.



http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/findprod.cfm?&sku=2417" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[barditch]

I'd have to say using a guide or sharpening jig is at least very wise. If you can't get a sharpening guide by mail order, then make one; there's nothing complicated or mysterious about 'em. The store-bought ones just work very well and don't cost a lot, less than $15.



http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/findprod.cfm?&sku=2417" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Believe Pogo on the tools...the guy's got a library of sources on good stuff that would make many a good tool store blush! I just scooped that one he posted!

[gerald]

I do it all by hand with no jigs. I put a hollow grind on all chisels and plane blades with a belt sander (I keep the tool cool by dipping in water). Then I clean it up with a diamond stone. Sharp enough for me. You can shave with them. During use every once in awhile (a matter of days or weeks depending on how much I'm using them) I'll stroke the blade or chisel over the diamond stone to bring it back to sharpness. Once the hollow grind is about half or a little more gone I do it all over.

Now that's scary sharp....

Once I find a wet tool grinder with a 2" diameter (or there abouts) wheel I'll quit using the belt sander....

[Too Busy]

I sharpen freehand, but a guide definitely makes it easier at least until you develop the feel for it.

You'd be surprised at how easy it is to get a plane blade razor sharp with a diamond hone.

[barditch]

I do it all by hand with no jigs. I put a hollow grind on all chisels and plane blades with a belt sander (I keep the tool cool by dipping in water). Then I clean it up with a diamond stone. Sharp enough for me. You can shave with them. During use every once in awhile (a matter of days or weeks depending on how much I'm using them) I'll stroke the blade or chisel over the diamond stone to bring it back to sharpness. Once the hollow grind is about half or a little more gone I do it all over.

Now that's scary sharp....

Once I find a wet tool grinder with a 2" diameter (or there abouts) wheel I'll quit using the belt sander....

I'm using a belt sander and have for years...makes it pretty nice because you can do chef's knives on the same platform! Actually, I found this out after I had been doing my knives on a belt sander for several years. I do hate a dull knife! Of course, my kitchen sometimes looks like a charnal house when a first time visitor goes to chopping veggies and thinks that all knives are like they sell in Wally World!

[Pogo]

I once asked about sharpening tools and techniques on a forum years ago, and one of the very first replies I got was "oh man, here we go .... a religious debate." The longer it goes since that was said, the truer I find it to be.

A belt sander, eh? What grit belt? Face the feed, or trail it? Strop?

I never use diamond stones because they're expensive. Where do you get 'em cheap, or do you bite bullets? How many do you have?

I do use Japanese water stones because I can buy as many as I want, and am happy with 'em although they are kinda fussy. You must true them up, or flatten them, since they're soft and will change shape relatively quickly. It's not difficult, but it ain't exactly insanely fun either.

[Too Busy]

Pogo
I've got 2 japanese water stones and 1 ultrafine diamond hone (2000 grit)

you can put an impressive edge on a tool with lapping compound and a piece of glass if you don't want to spend the $$$ on a diamond hone.

[gerald]

I use a fine grit on the belt sander--120 grit or better (usually no finer than 150, though because I don't usually have any finer). This is just to get the hollow grind on the tool. I face the feed and rest the chisel on the edge of the sander. I have 4 diamond stones but mostly use a large one I bought at Home Depot or Lowes....even then I just bite the bullet at the cost. They are well worth the money....cut quick and fine and seem to last forever...

You have to keep the tool cool and have a steady hand. I can refurbish old ragged chisels and plane blades and/or sharpen my finest tools using the same method. Just a matter of touch.

[Willy]

Could you define "hollow ground"? I have been sharpening my grandad's plane with an oilstone and finishing with jewelers rouge on a leather strop. Seems to be working well. I don't know any better.

The coolest perk to listening to you guys about rolling bevels is it is making me learn how to use these great tools.

Thanks,
Will

[PlasticPirogue]

I make (not assemble, but construct) bamboo flyrods. The single most critical tool is a beyond scary sharp low-angle block plane. My personal favorite are a pair of antique Stanleys. One I have tunnelled (the center of the plane is .005 deeper than the two outside "rails") which keeps you from bottoming out on the planing form and 1) dulling the plane iron, and 2) gouging the forms. The other is kept perfectly "true" and is only used for the final planing of cane strips. The plan irons come from a custom knife maker in Ft. Bragg, California who markets plane irons that are very high carbon steel with a low chromium content; you can get them extremely sharp and they hold up to the high silica content of cane. NO MAKER I KNOW would attempt to sharpen these plane irons freehand or with power equipment. What I do is establish my bevel using a roller guide on a thick piece of plexi-glas and 400 wet/dry sandpaper kept wet. Then I do a few stokes on 600, then 800 and then use the water stone, NEVER altering the guide angle. If the plane iron is not insanely sharp, with a flat bevel, cutting bamboo to tolerences about the thickness of a childs hair can not be done with consistent results. If the plane iron gets just slightly worn, the planing action will actually lift the cane strip from the form and the result is an undersized strip. The tip strip at this stage is only .036"...about half the thickness of a round toothpick. .005" one way or the other would make a HUGE difference in the final product.

This is not to imply that a plane needs to be this sharp to cut softer materials like boat building woods (mahogany, cedar, spruce, etc..) but if you want to meet people who are crazy for sharp tools, go hang out with some cane rod makers.

[Pogo]

NO MAKER I KNOW would attempt to sharpen these plane irons freehand or with power equipment.

Dude, I'm glad you posted, I feel much better now. Freehanding a plane iron sounds nuts to me. I mean, some old timer who's been doing it for three hundred years might be able to pull it off, but I sure wouldn't be telling noobs it's a good way to go. And I wouldn't send new hands anywhere near a belt sander with tempered steel. Like I said in my first post to this thread, roller guides are cheap -- too cheap NOT to use 'em. And the scary sharp method is a great way to learn how to hone a plane irons and chisels with little chance of getting into any kind of trouble. But if I had said anything, I'd have been shot.

[barditch]

For those of you not aesthetically challenged by sharpening via belt sander, Bullet Industries.com in Houston is a great source of abrasives for belt sanders as well as all the other stuff...grinders, ROS abrasives, floppies, whatever, etc... that people like us need and can't find! Good mail order service, decent prices, and they know what you're talking about when you come up with something that makes the guys in the orange vests scratch their heads! They also had the good sense to move to Houston from CA last year!

[gerald]

Well...it's good to know I've been doing everything wrong for 50 years or so. Just think how much fine wood work I could have done in that time if I'd been doing it right.

So...we also have sharpening purists--just like kayak purists--and other purists all over the world who stick their nose up in the air toward us non purists who have been doing everything wrong.

My, my, my......

Go figure...

[Pogo]

Ha ha! I KNEW it!! Simmer down, dude .... I have no doubt you can make it work. What I said was, I'd never suggest that a noob freehand a plane iron.

I also said sharpening tends to become a religious discussion. Am I right or what??

[PlasticPirogue]

Looks like you WERE right afterall!

[gerald]

Let's drag out the guns and mow'em all down!!! Naw...certainly you have a point pogo. I just don't want everyone to think that there is only one way to do anything. There are always alternatives. There is no one perfect method of doing anything. I learned that back when I started doing brain surgery. Some cuts worked--some didn't. We learn with every mistake....

[makenmend]

didn't want to raise any hackles,and I thank everyone for thier diverse opinions and appreciate the various points. I've ordered the guide you highlited Kurt, and in the mean time till I recieve the goodies I'm going to try freehand on some older abused chisels.

many thanks MM

[length]

I once asked about sharpening tools and techniques on a forum years ago, and one of the very first replies I got was "oh man, here we go .... a religious debate." The longer it goes since that was said, the truer I find it to be.

A belt sander, eh? What grit belt? Face the feed, or trail it? Strop?

I never use diamond stones because they're expensive. Where do you get 'em cheap, or do you bite bullets? How many do you have?

I do use Japanese water stones because I can buy as many as I want, and am happy with 'em although they are kinda fussy. You must true them up, or flatten them, since they're soft and will change shape relatively quickly. It's not difficult, but it ain't exactly insanely fun either.

I have several diamond stones like this one best. and you can't beat the price
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=92867" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;