TexasKayakFisherman.com est. 2000

Kayak fishing the Lone Star State...


By Dogpaddlin
#1345791
I have been wondering about this for a while. What are the differences between the three? I know Gerald said Seashell's new boat was a pirogue but it looks just like his other designs, to me my pirogue looks like a flat bottom canoe, etc... So what makes it a kayak a kaykak, a pirogue a pirogue , or a canoe a canoe?
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By gerald
#1345847
Seashell's new boat is a 3 panel Brazos River Fishing Boat. Strider's two boats are 5 panel Brazos River Fishing Boats. I can build a 3 panel pirogue, a 3 panel canoe, a 3 panel kayak--and several other variations. What does it look like? What do you want to call it? A pirogue is generally a 3 panel boat. A canoe is generally a large volume, high sheer, open boat. A kayak is generally a low volume, low sheer, decked boat. I can give you all three in 3 panels...or 4 panels (except a pirogue)--or 5 panels, or--well, I hope you get the idea. A pirogue will NOT have more than 3 panels or soft round chines. That's two things you can count on. Canoes and kayaks may have soft round chines--or any combination of hard and soft chine. Different shapes handle and perform differently. You can almost get any kind of performance and handling out of a 3 panel that you want.

So...we go back to: What does it look like and what do you want to call it?

Which is best. Haaa..they're all good! I've said this before--if I could only have one boat it would be a canoe. If I could modify it I would lower the sheer, deck it, give it a big, open, cockpit, and I'd call it: "my boat." Some people would call it a "kayak."

Did I clear that up?
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By bowgarguide
#1345933
They were all location sensitive boats originally
Kayaks skin covered boats with a very tight cockpit to survive in the cold water where they were used
Perow Flat bottom ,the originals were pretty wide and had a lot of rocker,made to stand up and pole or paddle run very shallow,most were built for the swamps and out of cypress sawn from 3/4 to an inch thick still some hundred year old boats running around down south.
Canoe ,widder longer the trucks of the rivers,some as long as 35 ft ,hi bow and sterns ,pretty high sides most had little rocker and were made to run straight and glide well but also handle rough water on lake crossing.
The boats we have now are all variations of the originals and I dont know what you would call them.
Ron
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By Pogo
#1345936
I agree with Ron, who never fails to amaze me with his incredibly well-hidden intelligence............... :P

The terminology is all over the place, and will probably never be standardized or straightened out. For instance, in England the only kayaks that are called kayaks are traditional skin-on-frame jobs like Nanook might be dodging ice floes in. My Nordkapp or Outer Island, which we'd call a sea kayak, would be called a canoe over there .... unless you're on the Valley or NDK web site, where it suddenly becomes a kayak once again. Why? Well, perhaps the fact that us Yanks account for twenty or thirty boat purchases from them for every one sold to a local bloke might have something to do with it. Just a wild guess.

Pirogue means boat in French. So does bateau. I don't speak French except when in a foul mood, so don't ask me what the diff is. All I know is that pirogues are simple canoes, and are called pirogues because they were pretty much invented by Cajuns, who are like French exiles or something and speak a strain of French that nobody can understand, even in France. But then, nobody can understand a word they say when they attempt English, either, or even Texan. Fortunately, they get their ideas across in spectacular fashion through food and music .... and boats. No problem.

Some people call the rotomolded plastic SOT a kayak, and that's a stretch. Well, the operators generally wield double paddles, but there any similarity ends as far as old Nanook might be concerned. But what else would you call them? They're so repulsive that no self-respecting original name will have anything to do with them, let alone stick, so kayak it is.

So we pretty much just mix 'n' match, and use whatever feels about right at the time, and nobody ever calls the name nazis on us. We get away with murder in paddle sports.
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By gerald
#1346274
Ah yes...there is one definitive definition when it comes to racing kayaks and canoes. A canoe is paddled with a single blade. A kayak is paddled with a double blade. There are some other rules that go along with that but that is the ONE single (or is it two?) rule for canoes and kayaks. In fact the length, width, height, decking, etc. are exactly the same for an ICF kayak or canoe--the only distinction being paddled with a single or double blade. I believe a pirogue could also fit these rules--though it wouldn't be as fast. There is a race in Louisiana for pirogues--bout like the one seashell has, 24" wide, little longer though. They are quite fast, though not as fast as a boat built specifically for racing.
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By bowgarguide
#1346906
This is a little off topic ,but Pogo mentioned the bateau ,pretty interesting location sensitive boats.
Flat bottoms ,normal length 58 ft pointed at both ends ,8 ft wide were not paddled but powered with sweeps on both ends or by poling normal load was 10,000 lbs they were built to transport heavy cargo on rivers. I like the way these folks thought the nose of the boat was built separate and in a single unit so it could be easily replaced from running into logs and rocks.
Ron
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By bowgarguide
#1346913
Pretty interesting how they built the native kayaks to there personal measurements

The builder used found materials and anthropomorphic measurements, using his own body, to create a kayak conforming closely to his own body. For example: the length was typically three times the span of his outstretched arms. The width at the cockpit was the width of the builder's hips plus two fists (and sometimes less). The typical depth was his fist plus the outstretched thumb (hitch hiker). Thus typical dimensions were about 17 feet (5.2 m) long by 20-22 inches wide by 7 inches (180 mm) deep. This measurement style confounded early European explorers who tried to duplicate the kayak because each kayak was a little different.

They talked about the eskimo roll ,said very few folks could swim and the water was so cold you had a short survival time. Eskimo roll was the answer.
Ron
User avatar
By Pogo
#1347051
That's all very correct, alright. But the most amazing thing of all was that Ron typed 'anthropomorphic', spelled it right, and nobody was injured. :shock: Dang! Do it again, Ron!!! :clap:
By Paddletrucker
#1347958
Pogo wrote: But the most amazing thing of all was that Ron typed 'anthropomorphic', spelled it right, and nobody was injured.


As if he'd misspelled it I'd have known the difference? :mrgreen: Doubt it. C'mon guys, I don't want to have to use a dictionary to read the forums. :shock: :lol:
User avatar
By Pogo
#1348356
That's a fact! Ride 'er 'til she leaves the rails is my motto!! Whoo! Whoo!


PS: Don't tell me Ron is smarter than an Okie. Please don't tell me that.... :P
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