TexasKayakFisherman.com est. 2000

Kayak fishing the Lone Star State...


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By FishingSETX
#1275544
The boat im building (SLOWLY) is going to be a 14' long and 22" wide SINK. Im getting ready to order the epoxy and cloth, but I just dont know exactly how much and how wide the cloth should be due to the curvature of the hull. Im guessing 30" wide, and 56' (18-20 yds) long??? I also plan on ordering USC resin/hardner in the 2:1 kit (2 gal/1gal). Will that be enough?? Do I need less?


Here is the thread I started on the freshwater board on the build. Now we have the new forum so I will keep updating it here!!!

http://texaskayakfisherman.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=117989

as I stated before this is going to be a SLOW build but I'll update it from time to time. I am definatly going with 1/4" strips now (thats the tightest I can comfortably cut on my delta tablesaw), 4 oz cloth (thinking of satin "tight" weave), and slow cure epoxy even though it'll be air conditioned. I dont mind waiting a couple of days between coats. I just dont want it kicking off while im trying to wet out the cloth!!!! I can shut the AC off between coats and the building will warm up quick to help with the cure. Anything I should be concerned about on this??

Im wanting this boat to be LIGHT! This will be a paddling boat not a fishing boat and should see little or no abuse. I mainly want it for long distance paddles exploring new water. The ultimate 12 is a great fishing rig, but not the best paddling rig. With the stripper, I want to be able to jump in with maybe one rod and 3-4 baits, paddle all day, and cover alot of ground. If I find a good area, then I'll come back later with the ultimate or bimini to fish it hard.

Now If I could just find the time to work on it!! I did get one board cut into strips, but with no dust mask, and the WRC dust cutting put in the air, I had to give it up untill I got a mask!!!!! Does cutting WRC usually put up that fine of dust?? The sawdust was alot like flour! Going to try sunday to get the forms glued down and cut out and if I have time, get some more strips cut!! Wife is going to the flea markets, so I should have a little free time!!!
User avatar
By gerald
#1275615
Well--you are suppose to wear dust masks at all times. I don't--always--but you're suppose to! If I'm going to be making lots of dust I'll try to wear one.

Anything you cut will make dust. Usually when cutting strips it will be a coarser saw dust. It sounds like you may be using a fine tooth bandsaw blade, or one that's worn. If so it will create more fine dust and eventually get hot and start making wavy cuts. You need a little set in the teeth of the blade.

I know a lot of people use a bandsaw to cut strips but I always use my tablesaw. In fact I'll be cutting a LOT of strips sometime this week.
User avatar
By makenmend
#1275696
FishingSETX when you say 1/4" strips, are you meaning width not thickness? if so what is your reasoning for this, to enable easier radius ?? and depending on the kerf of your blade how much material would you loose ?

MM
User avatar
By Pogo
#1275750
I have never paid close attention, but I believe I use bout a gallon of goo per boat (I'm also extra stingy with my epoxy to keep weight down). I'd say a gallon and a half would be safe for a noob. You can also ask most questions of this sort to the people who answer the phones at USComposites or Raka; they talk to boat builders all the time. Satin weave is more difficult to wet out, but really saves epoxy, which really saves weight. Mix small batches to keep the goo nice 'n' fresh.

Get a tape measure like a seamstress or tailor uses to measure anatomy, that's limp as a piece of string. Wal-Mart fabric section, get a couple 'cuz they're cheap and forever misplaced. That's what I use for measuring for glass.

1/4" thick strips is good, and they certainly won't be no 1/4" thick when you're done sanding. For ripping strips I like an $11 24-tooth Freud Diablo rip blade in 7.5" flavor from the hardware store. Nice thin 1/16" kerf, and sub-size blades run extra smoothly. A good shop fan is a great addition for summertime work, and will help keep sawdust outa your face. Treat yourself to a cannister type respirator, and take time to adjust it for max comfort. I don't wear mine as often as I ought, either.

Once you've put epoxy on bare wood, if temps rise the wood will outgas and leave little bubbles behind, so warming up the shop to help the epoxy kick is rather opposite of how you might wanna be thinking. Seal coats before glass really help keep this to a minimum, but dealing with outgassing is likely to become just one of those things you learn about. Epoxy curing while temps are falling is the perfect world, if not always attainable (it seldom is in my world).

Finally, and cover your ears, Ron . . . . 'light weight' and 'weak structure' are not synomynous terms. My Merlin is built especially strong because it is my fishing boat and made for standing up in. It's 15'-6" x 28", weighs 33 lbs. No satin weave cloths either, I used 4 and 6 oz plain weave e-glass (the regular ordinary kind, not the super strong s-glass) on it. I come from a background of building airplanes, which must be very strong and very light every time. Not hard to do at all, just takes a little additional care is all.
User avatar
By gerald
#1275773
1/4" X 3/4" strips are the standard but can easily be adjusted up or down depending upon the characteristics one is looking for. I use a thin kerf blade to cut the wood.

I generally figure 1 1/2 gallons of epoxy for a boat, but then I also have on hand some different epoxy for use in glue and goopie. While lightweight construction is something all of us can strive for I also believe you need to apply enough epoxy to completely block water. In recent study of some lightweight boats I noticed damage that appeared to be from water migration. The more I thought about it the more I'm convinced that this is happening because of inadequate epoxy--possibly in the saturation coat along with the fill coats, but most probably from inadequate fill coats.

I have no problem with lightweight construction when appropriate--and is almost always appropriate, but not when it can cause problems. Strong and light every time is simply not possible nor even desirable for the average boat builder.
User avatar
By Pogo
#1275817
Everything's relative, also. 45 to 50 lbs is plenty attainable and desirable for the "average boat builder", and that's a lot lighter than the 60 to 70 lbs a commercial boat weighs on average. I'm still convinced that light weight is one of the chief benefits to building your own boat. (Sorry Ron, I'm trying to be better but Gerald's picking on me again!! :lol: )

I've never had a water migration problem, but will agree that building extra light requires extra care, again, all things being relative. For me personally, I'm really not so sure I'd be all that much more ethusiastic about dragging a plastic boat than a wood one anyway, just doesn't seem like the best way to be treating the ol' equipment. In any case I'd have to observe that it's all about tradeoffs, as usual with small boats.
User avatar
By gerald
#1275835
Not picking on you at all! We agree in much more than we disagree. My target weight for most boats is 50 pounds or less. While I can build much lighter I simply don't. I DO have a goal of 40 pounds for one of the current boats I'm building and I'll do my very best to get it to that weight. 40 pounds is an attainable goal, but I'm also trying very hard to keep a very good strength to weight ratio.

As I get older that 30 pound boat I can still fling around like I use to fling around 100 pound boats is looking pretty good...
User avatar
By bowgarguide
#1275886
Pogo
The boat I used at Castile race weighed 44 lbs, 15 ft 5 inches long full front and back decks,3/16 laun. It took a tremendous beating at that race for several reasons,I didnt know the river ,first time on it, so when you came to a rapid it was take a wog (wild a$$ guess) and go for it, no two was I was inexperienced in racing so I didnt have any ideal if the pace I was using was good are bad so I really abused the boat at times, all that being said I dont think a lighter boat would have been worth the risk of a boat failure.
Now I am going to pick on you, your 33 lb canoe would have weighed in closer to my yak if you had full decks bulkheads water tight hatches. I bet it would be less than 4 lbs difference.
Here is the where we part ways on weight ,most of my comments are toward first are second time builder
they need to not cut corners and build a good servicable boat ,then if they want to lighten the next one up they have some of the expertise to do it.
To me sometimes you stress lightness more than servicable.
My boat could have been built in the thirty lb class if I had used 3 mm ( 1/8 ply) would it have servived what I put it thrue at Castile ,I really doubt it.
Ron
User avatar
By FishingSETX
#1276120
LOL, you guys kill me on the weight debate!! We'll see how it turns out!! Im going to build it as light as I feel safe, and if it doesn't hold up, I'll just have a reason to build another!!!

Now to the comments:

Anything you cut will make dust. Usually when cutting strips it will be a coarser saw dust. It sounds like you may be using a fine tooth bandsaw blade, or one that's worn. If so it will create more fine dust and eventually get hot and start making wavy cuts. You need a little set in the teeth of the blade


As for the resperator, I think of it like I do a PFD. Should I wear it at all times? Yes. Do I wear it at all times? No. Basically, The dust was to the point that I couldn't stand to work anymore and spent the next 30 mins coughing up goopie!!!! I'm using a table saw and the blade is brand new, so a worn blade isnt the problem.

FishingSETX when you say 1/4" strips, are you meaning width not thickness? if so what is your reasoning for this, to enable easier radius ?? and depending on the kerf of your blade how much material would you loose ?

MM


3/4" wide by 1/4" thick. Basically a 1"X6" (picket fence actual size 3/4" X 5.5") ripped into 3/4" strips

I generally figure 1 1/2 gallons of epoxy for a boat, but then I also have on hand some different epoxy for use in glue and goopie.


I'll probably just order the 3 gallon kit then. I use epoxy for alot of things like spoon flies, rod building, home repairs, and generaly anywhere I can think of. I've toyed around with different thinners and different thickeners quite a bit, so i do know a little about how it reacts. Only thing I've never messed with is fiberglassing.

For ripping strips I like an $11 24-tooth Freud Diablo rip blade in 7.5" flavor from the hardware store. Nice thin 1/16" kerf, and sub-size blades run extra smoothly. A good shop fan is a great addition for summertime work, and will help keep sawdust outa your face.


My tablesaw is a 10" Delta Shopmaster. Probably not the best out there, but the price was right and I don't use it much until now. The blade I bought is a 7.25" Freud Avanti 30 tooth TIn The kerf is somewhere between 7/64" and 1/16" (didn't have a tape on me). The 30 tooth blade may be whats causing my dust problem!!!! Now I wish I had saved $29 and went with the diablo blade!!!!

For a shop fan, I have 2 of the cheapo box fans from wal-mart. I put one in the window on the right side of the shop blowing in and one in the window on the left side of the shop blowing out. Keeps a pretty good draft going.

Once you've put epoxy on bare wood, if temps rise the wood will outgas and leave little bubbles behind, so warming up the shop to help the epoxy kick is rather opposite of how you might wanna be thinking. Seal coats before glass really help keep this to a minimum, but dealing with outgassing is likely to become just one of those things you learn about. Epoxy curing while temps are falling is the perfect world, if not always attainable (it seldom is in my world).


Glad I asked then!!! Might be good to keep the AC set on 80 and when finished applying, turn it down to 75 or 70!! Might just leave it on 75. I'll have to do some R&D and see what works best!!!!

I really appreciate the help!! Now where did I put that free time??? I never seem to be able to find it when I need it!!!
User avatar
By Pogo
#1276142
Free time is easy. Sell the family into slavery and quit your job. :shock:

Most builders deal with outgassing by doin' the goopin' in the late afternoon when daytime temps begin falling. I just wet out my glass whenever, then add a fill coat whenever, and get a few bubbles. When the 'poxy's hard enough on the fill coat, I sand any bubbles (don't always get 'em) mostly to make 'em good and visible, then come back and hit those rascals as the sun is setting.

On building light weight, my motto is "If it breaks I'll fix it and make it stronger". So far I've never had to fix anything because I didn't build it heavy enough.

I build light weight because I can never think of a good reason to build 'em heavy, but mostly because I like stirring up hornet nests, and, ofcourse ---> :horse:

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