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By rfox123
#2272805
Ron Mc wrote:you're welcome, rigging boats is fun - probably the only thing more fun is building bicycles:
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/57-le ... ost-743275
(link to a '57 Raleigh Lenton Grand Prix I built from bare frame)

The board doesn't have the kind of traffic it used to (photobucket was a big factor), but there is a huge rigging archive here - many ideas for making rod holders and dashboards from pvc pipe.

You'll also note this is a 6-y-o topic. My daughter is grown up and going to A&M.
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I saw that this was an older post, “like Me” archives never get useless.
I work for TAMU Systems here in College Station.


Land or Sea Blessed by Thee!
User avatar
By Ron Mc
#2272808
she's a freshman studying biochemistry, which falls under Ag school.

Since it's time to replace cordage on the skeg (I didn't like cleating the 4.4mm diameter of the orange cord which I already had around - threw 12' of 3.8mm into my cordage order), but I took the skeg apart to clean and lube it.
Should have taken a photo - it's very simple, 2 nylon discs, a screw and aircraft nut sandwiches the whole thing together.
It was dirty. Cleaned with alcohol and lubed every contacting surface with LPS dry film. Really slicked it up.
The skeg blade is showing wear and tear, the anodizing is slowly evaporating - one day if it gets too ugly, i'll buy a sheet of delrin and fabricate/replace the 3 aluminum parts.

I found a good place online to buy cordage (marine double braid and bungee). https://www.sailrite.com/Cordage/Marine-Rope
What makes them good is inexpensive shipping options and no minimum order.
Of course if you have a West Marine nearby, drop in and give them your business - maybe they'll still be there next time you need something.

Also, if you need fasteners, https://www.boltdepot.com/Catalog.aspx has everything, no minimum order, 316 SS, quick service, and cheap shipping.
Local hardware stores are nice, Home Depot is expensive because of their packaging, but neither have all the options.
User avatar
By Ron Mc
#2273082
all done with new cords on the skeg, deployment line and 1/4-inch bungee (the skeg self-deployment spring), it came out nice and totally friction free.
$17 with shipping was enough double braid to rig this twice, and enough bungee for a half-dozen or more replacements.
Line and bungee replacement every few years is normal maintenance on any boat.
It's a good idea to tightly tape bungee before you cut it, and lightly burn it after. Exception would be cutting the tag on knots, where you want it to flare and burn those cuts thoroughly.
- a couple of 3 photos (and yes, cleated bungees just for the photo - when possible, bungees should always be relaxed)
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compared to the measured 4.4mm orange double braid I tried (and already had around), the just slightly smaller 3.8mm line behaves better everywhere, especially in the cleat.
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used just a black sharpie to mark a window for cleating proper skeg position on the deployment line - kinda looks like a coral snake there
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adding a ps - the 2 fasteners for the fairlead cleat are the only 2 holes I've ever drilled in this boat. Those are #10 (type A) self-taping, with large matching rubber-lined pressure washers (1" fender size) and a marine-grade goop in the drilled hole and threads.
I know people like to use drills and cutters rigging their boats, but I have 9-y-o and 7-y-o boats, and neither get damp inside on a week-long coast trip. I've also replaced the seal strips in my Tarpon hatches, and keep an eye on them.
It's nice when you reach into your hold and your canvas bag is not wet.
I'll always vote for using holes sparingly, and then think about where you put them and how you seal them.
By rfox123
#2273129
Ron Mc wrote:all done with new cords on the skeg, deployment line and 1/4-inch bungee (the skeg self-deployment spring), it came out nice and totally friction free.
$17 with shipping was enough double braid to rig this twice, and enough bungee for a half-dozen or more replacements.
Line and bungee replacement every few years is normal maintenance on any boat.
It's a good idea to tightly tape bungee before you cut it, and lightly burn it after. Exception would be cutting the tag on knots, where you want it to flare and burn those cuts thoroughly.
- a couple of 3 photos (and yes, cleated bungees just for the photo - when possible, bungees should always be relaxed)
Image
compared to the measured 4.4mm orange double braid I tried (and already had around), the just slightly smaller 3.8mm line behaves better everywhere, especially in the cleat.
Image
used just a black sharpie to mark a window for cleating proper skeg position on the deployment line - kinda looks like a coral snake there
Image
adding a ps - the 2 fasteners for the fairlead cleat are the only 2 holes I've ever drilled in this boat. Those are #10 (type A) self-taping, with large matching rubber-lined pressure washers (1" fender size) and a marine-grade goop in the drilled hole and threads.
I know people like to use drills and cutters rigging their boats, but I have 9-y-o and 7-y-o boats, and neither get damp inside on a week-long coast trip. I've also replaced the seal strips in my Tarpon hatches, and keep an eye on them.
It's nice when you reach into your hold and your canvas bag is not wet.
I'll always vote for using holes sparingly, and then think about where you put them and how you seal them.




Land or Sea Blessed by Thee!
User avatar
By Ron Mc
#2274783
more shock work.
I donated this beautiful Ronstan ball-bearing microbock to my buddy's trolley project, including the hardware for him to easily bolt it to a sternwell bungee guide on his boat - really nice freedom on the shackle, full rotate and tilt. I'm hoping he'll get the matching Ronstan cheek block, which is easy to mount next to his bow hatch.
Plus removing it, replaced the weight of a 2-1/2" 1/4-20 and aircraft nut with 1/16" cord lashing, and though not significant, the shock is a tiny fraction of the microblock weight.
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Where I was using it, the obtuse bend in the line, I needed something to keep the deployment line aligned and spooling properly on the capstan.
While the orbit block did the job perfectly, it was way overqualified for this little bend.
When I discovered Ronstan shocks this year, knew I could do the same job with one there. It just took me awhile to get around to buying a couple more.
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I can live with my lashing - places the shock where I need it and gives it both the right limits and freedom.
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First tried using the larger 7mm shock here, but couldn't lash it to guarantee the line wouldn't jump the capstan. The smaller 4mm solves that - letting the deployment line go with a full -energy bouncing bungee release, which you shouldn't do, the line stays aligned on the capstan.
User avatar
By TexasJim
#2274788
For you guys doing rigging, an online company named Sailcare sells all types of blocks(pulleys, for the non-sailors), microblocks, cleats, nylon and dacron line, stainless cable and tons more stuff, very cheap. Their microblocks start about $5.00, and their 1/4" ball-bearing blocks start about $10.00. Much cheaper than Harken and YakGear stuff. They are at sailcare.com. I've been using them for years. FYI TexasJim
User avatar
By Ron Mc
#2274791
A vendor I use is SailRite, because they have cheap shipping options and great service.
No reason not to buy the good stuff for your kayak.
For that matter, if you have a West Marine nearby (they closed all their doors in San Antonio), a great place to buy "kayak" brands as well as traditional sailor brands, cordage of every grade, and especially, to window-shop for rigging ideas.
In a former life I sailed an O'Day 27, so I think out my rigging, make it work, and make it last.

On this thread, everything that's involved is the skeg made for an inflatable kayak, designing and fabricating a bracket to make it work on a PE kayak (all done over 6 years ago), and making it work better along with needed replacement of the original cord. The original deployment line design was insufficient, a 90-degree bend with no radius going into a misaligned hole drilled through 2" of nylon that my then 11-y-o daughter was not going to be able to operate. No grade of line can last with that bend. That's the hole I use now for lashing.

If you are buying online, 30' of new trolley line, 6' of skeg deployment line, 10' of 1/16" rudder deployment line, a dozen feet each in a couple of sizes bungee, it's not a big deal to buy the better grade cordage. (especially when your 9 year old Ronstan trolley blocks are good as new)

I've never used this vendor, no knowledge of their service or shipping, but here are cheap trolley blocks.
https://alexnld.com/product/2pcs-25mm-s ... r-trolley/
Would I put these against Ronstan for 9 more years salt use? no.
The reason I used Ronstan orbit blocks on my Tarpon trolley was so I wouldn't have to drill holes in the boat, especially at the stern, where I couldn't get behind it. OK, and I like them.
I also designed it with no metal touching the boat.
Our 2 boats can spend a week in the salt without getting damp inside.
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Last edited by Ron Mc on Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By TexasJim
#2274797
Ronc: Like you, I'm a former sailor. I had seven sailboats, my last was a C & C 37 that I sailed 18,000 miles between Galveston and the Eastern Caribbean (twice), before it totalled in Hurricane Hugo in 1989. Then I had a 38' twin diesel motor yacht for another 12,000 miles, before losing it in a hurricane in 2008. (That's why I'm back in Texas!)
My friends ask me how I figure out how to do things, and I tell them "With a self-tailing winch, some good dacron line and a snatch block, I can do almost anything". Plus, I'm cheap. You're a gitter done type, too. TexasJim
User avatar
By Ron Mc
#2274799
way cool - my nephew had a 30' sailboat in Ponchetrain while he was working offshore and his wife was an attorney in CO.
They bought it when she was going to Tulane Law School.
He used it as a landing on his way to and from the platform. After Katrina, he went online, hoping to find his boat an insurance write-off, and it was the only boat still sitting in a slip.
(finally sold it - or gave it away - take up the slip fee)

ps - about those Ronstan blocks - they use delrin sheaves and delrin ball bearings, so there's no way the salt can ever hurt them - occasionally spray them with a dry lube.
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pss - another good Rockwall, Texas vendor that makes extra effort, though they don't have cheap shipping options - Vela rigging supply.
My 9-y-o dockline had been pouring blue powder on the foredeck for 2 years, and it was time to replace it.
Bought the good stuff at cordage price, expecting to tie a bowline to my bow lift handle.
It arrived beautifully hand-spliced and seized.
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this is art, but it also happens to be very useful on a boat
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and a good Miami vendor with first-rate service - no cheap shipping options - but a wide range of boating and fishing hardware - Crook & Crook. Though I got free shipping from them buying a Rapala electric knife (just for redfish ribs - use my Knives of Alaska Coho for the rest), but threw in some important small hardware while I was at it. They ship Fast.

psss (if there's a such thing) - I'm all caught up on rigging at least through this year and probably next.
Maybe I can take my camera when I'm helping my buddy with his rigging...
User avatar
By Ron Mc
#2274916
ok, I lied, I'm still rigging.
Another bad design point in the skeg, they use a full-thread 1/4-20 (x 2") machine screw as the rotation axle. Even though the length of the axle is fixed by the aircraft nut, over time the steel threads cut mating threads in the aluminum frame, and the skeg begins to tighten against itself when you're trying to deploy it - no matter how slick you think you got it.
It will work beautifully for awhile, then suddenly binds up for no apparent reason - well, I found the reason...
You can still turn around, give it a nudge with your paddle and it will finish self-deploying, but I don't want that.
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I'll be replacing the machine screw with closely measured M6 shoulder bolt - parts on order, and will show the finished end next week.
If you ever need fasteners, Bolt Depot online is the place - their selection of 316 stainless is unmatched even by Alamo Bolt (who supplies the San Antonio airport). Anything you need, great service, quick and cheap shipping - no order is too small.
I'm pretty sure my fancy shoulder bolt just below was CNC-machined on order and drop-shipped.

The hole through the frame, skeg blade, and capstans is just big enough for the 1/4-20 threads (0.226"+ clearance).
1/4" shoulder bolt won't go in, and 7/32" is too sloppy at 0.219" (I test-fit the shank of a drill bit).
M6 is just right at 0.236" - I had a long M6 socket screw with half-shoulder to test fit, and the shoulder just glides in the holes.
My design will eliminate the self-binding, gave myself room on the bolt shoulder for nylon washers on each end, with a mm leftover endplay - and no more steel contact stress on aluminum.

My buddy is buying a milling machine for his continual '74 GMC RV project, boat parts and bike parts - one day I may buy a sheet of delrin and re-make the skeg 3 aluminum pieces at his house (he also home brews).
Here's the barn (cathedral) he just finished to park the RV inside - just under 16,000 cu-ft (city code limit), and a 40' RV only takes up half the floor. He'll be able to completely empty his garage of stuff-storage and put a shop in there, as well. If you look along the far wall you can see two 13' kayaks on the lower shelf. (and yeah, he has 4 other kayaks on a trailer for now)
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User avatar
By Ron Mc
#2275388
Finally finished, and persistence paid off.
I ordered my M6 x 50mm fancy shoulder bolt, CNC machined on order and drop-shipped, along with all the fittings I might possibly need from Bolt Depot.
Finally arrived.
While I was waiting, stripped all the aluminum parts and nylon capstans to lube everything with a few coats of teflon Sailkote. Here it is stripped down to the nylon mounting base.
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The new shoulder bolt fitted up for a width comparison. You can see I need at least two M6 washers on each side, and have 9mm of M5 securing thread to cover up.
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Here's what I have to tinker with, nylon and 316 washers. Everything on the left in some mix is going to replace the stupid threaded axle on the right. I also have M5 nylok nuts - things laid out here are being sprayed with Sailkote.
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It works like never before, self-deploys with the shock-cord-spring fully relaxed in the skeg-down position.
It never did that before - I always needed residual stretch on the shock cord that functions as the self-deployment spring.
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The head of the shoulder bolt axle has 3mm Allen socket -
- under the head a 316 M6 washer and a nylon washer (both coated with teflon).
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The M5 closing side has the same M6 316 and nylon washers taking up the rest of the shoulder, two M5 nylon washers taking up securing thread, 316 stainless M5 washer, and M5 nylok aircraft nut eating just the right amount of thread - no sharp edges.
Everything spins freely of each other - the axle, the capstans, the skeg blade - the washers.
The end-play on the axle is just enough to feel it bump without being able to see it move.
ImageI also installed the self-deployment-spring shock cord with two sliding cord locks (1/4-inch).
This will let me tension the bungee just before getting on the water, and I can relax that applied tension to let the bungee last longer.
This setup is also very easy to take apart when I will need to use the teflon dry lube down the road, or replace the bungee.
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