EEF is not helping itself out...

User avatar
Jerry-rigged
TKF 1000 Club
TKF 1000 Club
Posts: 1995
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 5:08 pm
Location: Alvin, Tx

EEF is not helping itself out...

Post by Jerry-rigged »

Ok, I got blasted last week for not being willing to give $100 to the tourney, so I am sure ya'll are going to blast me for this to, but it must be said-

What is up with all the EEF 'unwritten' rules, and secret disqualifications?!?!?!?

First we here that someone gets disqualified for breaking not one, but TWO rules, but then we are told -

About the guy who was disqualified, he probably doesn't want his errors to be broadcast. I think this was his first EEF tournament, and he messed up on a couple of points in the rules.


WTF?!?!?

If someone is DQ'ed you CANNOT just sweep it under the rug and say - oh he was just a first timer, ya'll don't worry about it.

Then we hear that his fish may have been winning or placing fish?!?

This needs to be clarified NOW, and this better not be one of those 'un-written' rules that was broken.

Rumor has it, that one of the broken rules was that he kept his fish. Back at the December event, there was a rule 'Clarification' that said you could keep your fish, if you wanted, but you were encouraged to release them. If this was changed, was this announced in the Captains meeting the night before? I know it was not talked about on this or several other boards with lots of EEF talk. Or was this another 'Unwritten' rule change/clarification?

As someone who is sitting on the fence about entering future EFF events, this, and all the hoopla before the event about 'unwritten' rules goes a long way to make me NOT want to participate in any future events.

Great way to promote the tournament, guys.

Jerry
User avatar
BENNY
TKF 3000 Club
TKF 3000 Club
Posts: 3923
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 9:10 am
Location: 77478, 77650, 78418 or 77434

Re: EEF is not helping itself out...

Post by BENNY »

Jerry-rigged wrote:Ok, I got blasted last week for not being willing to give $100 to the tourney, so I am sure ya'll are going to blast me for this to, but it must be said-

What is up with all the EEF 'unwritten' rules, and secret disqualifications?!?!?!?

First we here that someone gets disqualified for breaking not one, but TWO rules, but then we are told -

About the guy who was disqualified, he probably doesn't want his errors to be broadcast. I think this was his first EEF tournament, and he messed up on a couple of points in the rules.


WTF?!?!?

If someone is DQ'ed you CANNOT just sweep it under the rug and say - oh he was just a first timer, ya'll don't worry about it.

Then we hear that his fish may have been winning or placing fish?!?

This needs to be clarified NOW, and this better not be one of those 'un-written' rules that was broken.

Rumor has it, that one of the broken rules was that he kept his fish. Back at the December event, there was a rule 'Clarification' that said you could keep your fish, if you wanted, but you were encouraged to release them. If this was changed, was this announced in the Captains meeting the night before? I know it was not talked about on this or several other boards with lots of EEF talk. Or was this another 'Unwritten' rule change/clarification?

As someone who is sitting on the fence about entering future EFF events, this, and all the hoopla before the event about 'unwritten' rules goes a long way to make me NOT want to participate in any future events.

Great way to promote the tournament, guys.

Jerry


Whoa,
Jerry,
Two things happend that led to the disqulaification of this entrant. First of all, let me say that he is a friend and a past EEF winner. This was not his first tourney. Also let me say that at the captains meeting we went over "not killing fish" and "not stringing fish" specifically. (the result would be disqualification) This tourney is based on and we want to keep it a catch - photo- release tourney.
The fisherman that was disqualified did string his fish. Secondly, he fished with a person that was not in the tourney.
We don't want to be the fish police, and we aren't going to be. If you string your fish and keep them, how can we know? Why would we care?
The truth is, we really don't care. Just don't do it on tournament day. The issue can only arise if someone sees it happening and an official complaint is filed with the tournament committee. In this case, that complaint came from several people and included photos of the entrant with the strung fish. If we receive a complaint, we have to address it. It's the worst part of our job, but we have to.
This guy is a great guy and a hell of a fisherman. His team ended up winning it all, even without his fish being considered. I expect he will be back at the next event in Galveston.
User avatar
cyberyakker
TKF 1000 Club
TKF 1000 Club
Posts: 1644
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 11:45 am
Location: Beaumont-Orange

Post by cyberyakker »

So I went and looked at the rules and if what Jerry said is true, that is, if we have said we "encourage" you to release the fish, this seems like a mighty big rule to change at the captains meetings. The rule on assistance talks about following a non-entrants boat or markers and yes, i know the "not limited to" covers you, but it seems like if fishing with non entrants is prohibited that could be spelled out as well. I might have taken my wife with me and just have her fish around me for company and been disqualified.

Again, coming from a rule hater... the best way to have rules is to have them in advance and explicit and to change them only for safety reasons once disseminated in print. It can't be that hard.
User avatar
Ultrastealth
TKF 1000 Club
TKF 1000 Club
Posts: 1040
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 5:07 pm
Location: Houston
Contact:

Post by Ultrastealth »

This really stinks. I sent an e-mail to EEF a month ago to ask specifically if any fish could be retained and was told that the rules do not prohibit keeping of fish. I think that this issue should be resolved definitively. I didn't fish at POC, but I'm fishing the Galveston Tournament, and I think that this is only going to create more controversy. I think that it should be all release or no prohibition on keeping fish at all.
User avatar
Jerry-rigged
TKF 1000 Club
TKF 1000 Club
Posts: 1995
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 5:08 pm
Location: Alvin, Tx

Post by Jerry-rigged »

Benny,
Thanks for bringing this out in the open. I am glad to hear that the rule was discussed in the Captain's meeting - this should have cleared up the rule change.

Jerry
NoBoat
TKF 2000 club
TKF 2000 club
Posts: 2788
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 10:14 am
Location: Texas

Post by NoBoat »

I wasn't going to chime in on this, but I can't help it.

15. RULE CHANGES: Rule interpretation will be left exclusively to the Extreme Edge Paddling Tournament Series tournament director. The decisions of the Extreme Edge Paddling Tournament Series tournament director are final in all matters and are not subject to appeal.


This is the gotcha. I hope that as these rule changes occur they are added to the the offical rules. I could not find anything in the rules about stringing and and or keeping a fish. If this is a rule it needs to be added.

The Captain's meeting should be used for rule clarification, not rule creation.

Now, I'm saying all of this as a complete bystander. I wasn't there, so I do not know what transpired.
Last edited by NoBoat on Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
NoBoat
TKF 2000 club
TKF 2000 club
Posts: 2788
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 10:14 am
Location: Texas

Post by NoBoat »

Ok, after I read my post, I realize that the R in CPR is Release, I think this rule is implied by the name.
Last edited by NoBoat on Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
BENNY
TKF 3000 Club
TKF 3000 Club
Posts: 3923
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 9:10 am
Location: 77478, 77650, 78418 or 77434

Post by BENNY »

Come on guys. The premise of this series is Catch - Photo - Release.
If you want to keep fish, go fishing and keep them. Just don't keep them during a catch - photo - release tournament. We feel the rules are pretty clear. We don't want to make more rules. The people that fish these tournaments are good people, use good judgement and good sportsmanship. That's what we are about.
NoBoat
TKF 2000 club
TKF 2000 club
Posts: 2788
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 10:14 am
Location: Texas

Post by NoBoat »

Benny, I didn't mean my comments as a personal attack on anyone or even the tournament. I just think that if you find yourself having to clarify rules at the captain's meeting make sure they are addressed in the Offical rules for the next tournament. I do have one more question on the stringing thing. I know in the past participants have added fish to their stringer before taking the photo. That way if they are on fish they don't have to stop fishing and photo the fish after each one. Is this practice now against the rules? This was probably addressed at the Captain's Meeting, but because I was not there I would like to know for the next meeting.

Also, will the no launching to camp rule apply always, or was this just a rule for POC?
User avatar
Ultrastealth
TKF 1000 Club
TKF 1000 Club
Posts: 1040
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 5:07 pm
Location: Houston
Contact:

Post by Ultrastealth »

To me, if you string a fish, you should have to keep it. Doing so causes irrepairable harm to the fish. What is the point of releasing a fish that is going to die anyway.
User avatar
BENNY
TKF 3000 Club
TKF 3000 Club
Posts: 3923
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 9:10 am
Location: 77478, 77650, 78418 or 77434

Post by BENNY »

I know it's not personal Clay and I don't take it as such.
We want to encourange all of our entrants not to kill fish during the tournament. We hope people are not putting fish on stringers for any amount of time and then taking their photo. Again, we don't want to write a law book of rules, we want people to use their best judgement in catching photoing and releasing their catch - alive.
CodeRed
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:31 pm
Location: Lake Jackson

Post by CodeRed »

I am a new comer as a kayak fisherman and i would like to see now entered in the rule book
1.NO KEEPING YOUR FISH UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES
2.NO FISHING ABSOLUTLY WITH ANYBODY WHO IS NOT ENTERED IN THE TOURNAMENT (NO MATTER IF ITS YOUR WIFE, KID OR ROOKIER NEWCOMER)!!!!!
User avatar
harv418
TKF 2000 club
TKF 2000 club
Posts: 2024
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2003 7:08 am
Location: Somewhere on the bay in Texas
Contact:

Post by harv418 »

I am going to chime in here. I had the plan and even mentioned to the team to string several fish, and take a picture of the largest...that way it is cast, catch, cast catch, paddle photo. But the rule was made very clear at the captains meeting. DO NOT STRING your FISH. Those were almost the exact words. My plans changed.

I applaude those that had to perform this deed. I do not envy your position in this. This one went off better than any I have fished so far. Congrats to Pescado Locos for their win. We will be gunning for you in Galveston.
User avatar
cyberyakker
TKF 1000 Club
TKF 1000 Club
Posts: 1644
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 11:45 am
Location: Beaumont-Orange

Post by cyberyakker »

Benny, I am in no way trying to attack you guys either... I think the rules are clear, but people say that in previous tournament stops they were told fish may be kept... here is my suggestion for two simple rules that may replace the ones there and would leave no doubt.

rule K) the EEF is a CPR tournament and under no circumstances are any fish to be kept or strung

Rule K+1) Entrants may not fish or have any communications related to fishing with any non-entrants.

Again, I am not a big rules guy, but when i am forced to have them I want to avoid gray areas.

sorry if you feel under attack. again, it is not meant this way.
User avatar
BENNY
TKF 3000 Club
TKF 3000 Club
Posts: 3923
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 9:10 am
Location: 77478, 77650, 78418 or 77434

Post by BENNY »

I don't feel under attack at all.
I think the conversation is a good one.
User avatar
Ultrastealth
TKF 1000 Club
TKF 1000 Club
Posts: 1040
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 5:07 pm
Location: Houston
Contact:

Post by Ultrastealth »

Why don't they just make the thing a nonrelease tournament? You would do away with the cameras, the complaints, and the controversy. The fish kept in such a tournament are insignificant. It is just a feel good thing to make people release those fish. The limits are set by the state to protect the resource. Three kayak tournaments a year have absolutely no impact on the resource!
Red Tracker
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:23 pm
Location: Corpus Christi,Texas

Post by Red Tracker »

How can his team win if they had a team member disqualified?
They signed up as a "TEAM" and should be judged as a team.
User avatar
BENNY
TKF 3000 Club
TKF 3000 Club
Posts: 3923
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 9:10 am
Location: 77478, 77650, 78418 or 77434

Post by BENNY »

Blue,
He was the only member that fished with a non-contestant.
User avatar
Grand Slammer
TKF 5000 Club
TKF 5000 Club
Posts: 5359
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 4:12 pm
Location: TKF RGV SPI

Post by Grand Slammer »

Looks like the "fun" has been taken out of fishing a tournament like this. I know fishing is serious business for a few lucky ones, but most of us are in it for fun, relaxation, etc.
User avatar
CM
TKF 3000 Club
TKF 3000 Club
Posts: 3718
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 5:22 pm
Location: LaMarque Clear Cure Goo Dealer,TFO dealer
Contact:

Post by CM »

benny; what if you catch a tagged redfish? Or you want to skin mount it. If I caught a 32" Red on the fly rod, I would want to enter it in the Body of Water Record in TP&W. Couldn't do it with the current rules. Come on and make it fare for everybody. The majority is going to release the fish, but consider the above.
User avatar
LiverDog
TKF 4000 Club
TKF 4000 Club
Posts: 4495
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2003 1:32 pm
Location: Whereever the Spice is.
Contact:

Post by LiverDog »

I fished this tournament. It was my first one as an actual contestant. I got skunked on the extreme low tide in fresh water. I had a blast. It was real fun, so dont talk about it as if it was a downer. I did not hear about the disqualification until this morning. Some people dont like to compete. Dont fish a tourney if you dont like to follow rules and compete in conditions that can not be predicted. As for me I will be back and raring to go in Galveston. Might bring the whole band with me to that one. My drummer is off his honeymoon now.
LD
User avatar
Mrs Backlasher
TKF 10,000 Club
TKF 10,000 Club
Posts: 14894
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 8:53 pm
Location: Pearland, TX

Post by Mrs Backlasher »

John D wrote:Looks like the "fun" has been taken out of fishing a tournament like this. I know fishing is serious business for a few lucky ones, but most of us are in it for fun, relaxation, etc.

John,

I don't think any of the fun has been taken out of the EEF tournaments. Tournaments must have rules so the playing field is level. It seems that only 1 person who caught fish had any trouble with the rules. It happened. We have to get over it and go on.

I had a fantastic time!
User avatar
RttlTrap
TKF 1000 Club
TKF 1000 Club
Posts: 1162
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 12:45 am
Location: Victoria

Post by RttlTrap »

Blue Heron wrote:How can his team win if they had a team member disqualified?
They signed up as a "TEAM" and should be judged as a team.


Thats the same question I had...
User avatar
Grand Slammer
TKF 5000 Club
TKF 5000 Club
Posts: 5359
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 4:12 pm
Location: TKF RGV SPI

Post by Grand Slammer »

Thanks Mrs. B. I can't wait for the day I can get to one myself. Are you ever going to have one down here in the Port Isabel area? There are some awesome spots here, and the flats are endless.
User avatar
MarkT
TKF 5000 Club
TKF 5000 Club
Posts: 5495
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 2:36 pm
Location: Victoria

Post by MarkT »

The two rules in question were pretty clear to me. The "no stringer" rule was specifically stated at the Captains' Meeting. That rule, in addition to protecting the fish for a successful release, also keeps the contestant in close contact with his/her boat ensuring that the contest is truly a kayak fishing tournament.
Post Reply