EEF is not helping itself out...

BENNY · Post by **BENNY** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:39 pm

We don't feel threatened. I think the conversation is a good one, but may have run its course.
Here's the good news; no one has to worry about catching a CCA tagged redfish during and EEF event, it won't happen (at least not this year) we don't have a tournament scheduled during the summer in Texas.

The bad news; there is and will be no personal best exception to the no kill rule. We can't determine what your previous personal best fish is. If I happened to catch a 30+ inch trout during the tourney and wanted to keep it for some weird reason (personally I would just take it's pic and get a fiberglass replica made, win the trout division and pay for the mount) the $85 I paid to get in the tourney seems like a resonable price for that fish.
The state law says if you kill a legal fish while catching it, you must keep it.
Obey the law. Keep the dead fish, take it's picture and let the tournament staff know immediatly upon your arrival at the event that you killed a fish while catching it and you kept it. You won't be disappointed with the result. Again, this has not happened in any EEF event to date.

CM · Post by CM » Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:39 pm

OK, Rick or Benny; I was just talking to a Licensed Capt that fish's Catch & Release Bill Fish Tournaments and here is his suggestion to this long thread.

ITS REAL SIMPLE

IF YOU CHOOSE TO KEEP A FISH IN A CATCH AND RELEASE TOURNAMENT, THAT SHOULD BE OK. BUT YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO ENTER THAT FISH YOU KEPT, BECAUSE IT WAS NOT RELEASED.
THATS PRETTY SIMPLE

NoBoat · Post by **NoBoat** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:40 pm

Newt wrote:
cyberyakker wrote:Oh, my friend, this thread is far from done .

It's be done if they'd lock it or dump it

You know the last three people to post before all have that ability. I'm always leary to do that.

Flyfisher · Post by **Flyfisher** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:41 pm

cberyakker, I agree. My comments are not meant to be potshots at the EEF, Benny, or Rick, but constructive comments. It is a great tournament and I can live with it as it is, but I think this is healthy.

Ray

BENNY · Post by **BENNY** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:50 pm

CM wrote:OK, Rick or Benny; I was just talking to a Licensed Capt that fish's Catch & Release Bill Fish Tournaments and here is his suggestion to this long thread.

ITS REAL SIMPLE

IF YOU CHOOSE TO KEEP A FISH IN A CATCH AND RELEASE TOURNAMENT, THAT SHOULD BE OK. BUT YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO ENTER THAT FISH YOU KEPT, BECAUSE IT WAS NOT RELEASED.
THATS PRETTY SIMPLE

That's nice for them. Won't work for us. We don't want ANY fish killed in our tournaments. It goes along with the whole "leave no trace" idea we try to promote at our events.

pag_yaker · Post by **pag_yaker** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:17 pm

I would think local LAWS would supercede tournament rules (implied or written).

carlton · Post by **carlton** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:00 pm

this thread reminds me of the story i heard in my youth about the proficient fisherman. for the sake of this story we will call him Profishent. every time Profishent would go fishing he would come home with a boat load of fish. after cleaning the fish he would invite his neighbors over and have a fish fry sometimes lasting until late in the evening. the local game warden lived just down the street from Profishent and noticed the large number of fish Profishent was bringing in each time he went fishing.he couldn't figure out how anyone could catch so many fish on every trip so the game warden decided he would keep an eye on Profishent. after watching Profishent for a while and still unable to discover his fishing secrets he decided enough was enough. so the game warden walked down to Profishent house and told him " i know you're up to something but i cant catch you. if you just show me how you always catch all of those fish on every trip i will not do anything to you." so Profishent says" if you promise not to do anything to me just meet me over here in the morning and i'll take you out and show you." so the next morning Profishent and the game warden leave on their fishing trip. Profishent drives aways down the road and stops at a store and buys some cold beverages. then drives a few more miles and stops again. the game warden asks "why are we stopping again?" profishent just buys some cigars and drives on down to the boat launch. they launch the boat and the game warden gets in. Profishent stands of the dock finishing his drink. the game warden asks "what are we waiting for?" Profishent finishes his drink and carefully throws his empty can in the trash bin then gets in his boat and motors out into the lake. he takes a good look around then drops anchor. the game warden gets his pole out and asks Profishent what bait he should rigup. Profishent gets one of his cigars out and lights it up, then looks over at the warden and tells him "let me show you how this is done, give me your pole." the warden hands over his pole and Profishent reaches done into the his tackle box and retreives a large stick of dynamite. Profishent then lights the dynamite with his cigar and hands the dynamite over to the game warden, smiling gently Profishent looks at the bewillderd game warden and asks "are you going to keep bitchen or start fishin."

per4manz · Post by **per4manz** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:59 pm

pag_yaker wrote:I would think local LAWS would supercede tournament rules (implied or written).

I agree as well. If I were an organizer I would definitely check with a lawyer to see what the liabilty would be if some event were to arise concerning the release of a mortally wounded fish. I just feel that if this tournament runs on the "Honor system" then honoring state law would supercede any tournament rule.

Paddlefoot · Post by **Paddlefoot** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:27 pm

You people sure know how to screw up something as tranquil and relaxing as fishing.

If it bothers you, do like me and avoid all of the commercialism like sponsors, tournaments, etc and use the entry fee money to buy gas to get to your favorite launch site.

When I get to the point of bitching about anybody's rules besides the state's concerning fishing, I'll quit.

BTW, I didn't see the teams that had all the big sponsors win anything....maybe those new kayaks aren't all that important anyway.

BENNY · Post by **BENNY** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:37 pm

per4manz wrote:
pag_yaker wrote:I would think local LAWS would supercede tournament rules (implied or written).

I agree as well. If I were an organizer I would definitely check with a lawyer to see what the liabilty would be if some event were to arise concerning the release of a mortally wounded fish. I just feel that if this tournament runs on the "Honor system" then honoring state law would supercede any tournament rule.

Ummm yeah...read my above post. "The state law says if you kill a legal fish while catching it, you must keep it.
Obey the law. Keep the dead fish, take it's picture and let the tournament staff know immediatly upon your arrival at the event that you killed a fish while catching it and you kept it. You won't be disappointed with the result."

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:56 pm

May I suggest we video tape the captain's meeting and have a notarized videographer accompany each participant during the tournament... this should keep the disqualifications down to a minimum.

After reading all of the posts here, it made me question the validity of the law that says you have to keep the 'legal' fish you kill. When you think about it, it is a very ridiculous law simply because it is almost impossible to enforce and the crabs have to eat too.

BENNY · Post by **BENNY** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:19 pm

In all seriousness, this was the first time we had to disqualify an participant, and it wasn't easy. I know and like the man.

Hopefully this can be a learning experience for someone else.

The Galveston entry is at the early bird price of $85.
Register early and often.
Looking forward to seeing yall again soon.

let's go · Post by **let's go** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:11 pm

I was staying out of this, but I have to say something.

This series is about fun, companionship, and fishing. It is a 75% luck 25% skill tournament. One big fish could bite anyone's lure at any moment.

Since I started fishing this thing I've met one of the best guys I've ever known. Dean and I have become the best of friends through our travels and fishing together. Every tournament day starts with us getting a little wired up and then one of us says, "let's just go fishing and see what happens." Then we set out and have a blast just fishing together. Catching a winning fish is just a bonus. If you aren't enjoying the day of fishing then you've got a real problem that no rules clarification can fix.

I've also met and fished with people from Virginia, California, New York, Louisiana, and Florida...not to mention all the Texans I would've never met. RayH, Johnster, Cory Routh, DaveR, and many others have brought much joy to my life.

Another thing this series has done for me is allow me to fish in places I probably would've never gone. I've caught snook that changed my outlook on where I might retire.

Is this series perfect? Not exactly, but it's better than anything else that's available. You want to have input? Join up, fish the tournaments, and conduct yourself in a positive manner. I've done this and Rick has listened to me when I've had an idea to improve the tournament. Not all my ideas have been accepted, but some have been incorporated into the way things are run. If you aren't participating it makes it kind of hard to take you seriously.

Thanks, Rick for taking the leap of faith on this series.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:50 pm

let's go wrote:This series is about fun, companionship, and fishing. It is a 75% luck 25% skill tournament. One big fish could bite anyone's lure at any moment.

If you aren't participating it makes it kind of hard to take you seriously.

In my opinion, TKF is about fun, companionship, and fishing. EEF is about a 'pro' tournament series with 3 events here, and 3 in Florida. I've got no problem with that. However, the common TKF'er is asked to participate (donate the $85, get skunked, enjoy the companionship) and yet the rules aren't set in stone. That being said, why not leave the common folks out of it and increase the entry fee to $250 and if you don't participate in all legs, points are deducted? I'll tell you why, because the funds won't be there.

Is this a good ole boys event? or a 'pro' fishing series? That is what you fellas have to figure out. And for those of you who run this event, please don't take my comments as a personal attack. As of yet, I have not participated but will soon and just think the rules should be structured, and you don't need a 'captains meeting' to make that happen... and I want to see 100+ participants per event. In my opinion, a couple of changes will appease the 'pro's' and local fishers will jump in and add to the excitement of the series.

Tyler · Post by **Tyler** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:19 pm

let's go wrote:I was staying out of this, but I have to say something.

This series is about fun, companionship, and fishing. It is a 75% luck 25% skill tournament. One big fish could bite anyone's lure at any moment.

Since I started fishing this thing I've met one of the best guys I've ever known. Dean and I have become the best of friends through our travels and fishing together. Every tournament day starts with us getting a little wired up and then one of us says, "let's just go fishing and see what happens." Then we set out and have a blast just fishing together. Catching a winning fish is just a bonus. If you aren't enjoying the day of fishing then you've got a real problem that no rules clarification can fix.

Amen! Scott!
Someone will always gripe about something. If you don't like the rules don't fish it.
This is a wonderful event. Too many chefs will spoil the soup. I am happy to eat the soup. Those that don't like it can eat soup elsewhere and that's fine, I understand.

Tyler

MarkT · Post by **MarkT** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:39 pm

Electric Water Boy wrote:I'm back. From TPWD http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/annual/fish/genfish.phtml

Waste of fish – It is unlawful to leave edible fish or bait fish taken from the public waters of the state to die without the intent to retain the fish for consumption or bait.

This TPWD rule is meant to prevent gross waste of the resource in cases where some one might do something like dump bycatch from a seine on the bank to die or leave game fish lying in the sand with no intent to keep them. There is always at least a slight possibility that a released fish will die. If you release a fish into the water that has some life in it after you have done your best to revive it, then you are not "leaving it to die," and would not be breaking the law.

per4manz · Post by **per4manz** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:13 am

BENNY wrote:
per4manz wrote:
pag_yaker wrote:I would think local LAWS would supercede tournament rules (implied or written).

I agree as well. If I were an organizer I would definitely check with a lawyer to see what the liabilty would be if some event were to arise concerning the release of a mortally wounded fish. I just feel that if this tournament runs on the "Honor system" then honoring state law would supercede any tournament rule.

Ummm yeah...read my above post. "The state law says if you kill a legal fish while catching it, you must keep it.
Obey the law. Keep the dead fish, take it's picture and let the tournament staff know immediatly upon your arrival at the event that you killed a fish while catching it and you kept it. You won't be disappointed with the result."

I apologize for not conveying myself clearer. I meant no ill will towards the tournament or the organizers.

What I meant to convey is that with such a clear law about retaining dead or dying fish I think it would be prudent to clearly define a written rule in order to cover the tournament's butt. I could see a scenario where some contestant releases a half-dead fish within eyesight of a warden and tries to blame tournament rules or organizers. However improbable, that scenario could cause a heap of unnecessary grief for the organizers that could easily be avoided with a couple of sentences to clearly state the law is to be followed and the tournament judges and organizers will determine if the fish still qualifies for consideration or disqualifies the contestant. You could go as far as to require the gut-hooked or gill-hooked fish have the line cut 6" outside of the mouth and the hook/lure left in place as evidence of a probable death for the fish.

I will be honest by telling you that I did not and have not participated in any of the EEF tournaments since I am new to the sport of kayak fishing (but not fishing itself). I would have liked to participated but felt that I don't have enough time on the water to feel 100% comfortable yet with my abilities. However, I am definitely interested and thinking about next year. I think that this thread and how things are handled from here on will help determine if others here that did not enter this time will enter in the future.

treetopflier · Post by **treetopflier** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:29 am

Is anyone blue in the face...I have to agree with Scott. You know myself and the guy I fish with get pretty jazzed up the day/night before the tourney, like to talk a litle trash over cocktails, then wake up all jazzed up ready to win. This time we were hauling tail out paddleling trying to go like 5 and a half miles one way and just kinda looked at each other and stopped, tucked into a little back bay and started fishing. This is a leisure activity with a little friendly competition attached (and some damn good cash and prizes to boot). I for one realized this weekend that this was being done for fun and wasn't the way I was trying to pay my bills anymore. That is one of the main things that draws me to this tourney trail, it rewards the angler that gets lucky and throws his bait in front of a large fish while also rewarding the guys that fish really hard and grinds it out all day trying to find all three species. The more I fish this thing, the more I seem to enjoy it. Go fish a Marlin tourney or the Redfish Cup , or Troutmasters and see if your competitors rolls up next to you to offer you a cold drink or some freshly made beef jerkey...or even toilet paper as in my case Saturday (to bad I had already utilized a short sleeve shirt).
Travis

TIN · Post by **TIN** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:21 pm

Paddlefoot,

You are not alone. We share the same view.

I paddle and fish for the beauty, serenity and simple joy it provides.

Bluffer · Post by **Bluffer** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:15 pm

wow, no toilet paper.... :shock:

xcharged · Post by **xcharged** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:08 pm

I saw this thread today, but I just happen to be going over the rules last night...
debating whether or not i should compete, since i don't think i could hit every leg.

I was trying to figure out what I would do if I caught a monster red from my kayak while fishing the jetties.

how would i get a clean photograph without standing.
Would i have to string the fish and paddle to shallow water so i could do this? or risk harming the fish by keeping him on my yak till i made it to shallow water then release.

(I'm about 98% catch n' release unless I've been asked by the wife to keep a few for dinner. btw)

I know i'm playing a game of 'what if's'.
I have a bad habit of playing out different scenarios.

anway, i'll worry about it once i have the bull red hooked.

Post by **Tombo** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 10:10 pm

Simply, you would have an envious problem.

Curtis J · Post by **Curtis J** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:04 pm

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