Knot hell

bow_wave · Post by **bow_wave** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 2:17 pm

Bear with me because I haven't done any fly fishing in over thirty-years. I bought a Scientific Anglers clear saltwater tapered leader. I fastened it to my fly line using the Uni-Nail knot shown on page 80 of Baits, Rigs & Tackle. The author says, "You can tie a leader to your fly line in seconds with the Uni-Knot, achieving the identical resuls as with the tedious Nail Knot that requires a tapered nail or tube for tying." The knot itself is not hard to tie, but I tried several times to get the knot to form correctly when I tightened it down. The author says that it has to be done in stages because the fly line's soft coating does not all the wraps to be pulled together in a single sweep. I finally ended up with a knot, but it doesn't looked like it formed quite like it should. I used pliars on the tag end to tighten it, and I tested it by hand and couldn't break the knot or make it pull loose. I think next time I'll order fly line and leaders with loops. Academy didn't have any of the high-priced line or leader in stock. Should I just try the Nail Knot the author calls tedious? I have a Nail Knot kit I've had for who knows-how-many-years that I never used.

Puck · Post by **Puck** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 2:31 pm

I hate to tell you this but....

Don't you just love when somebody starts out that way?

I buy a spool of braided mono running line, 30# or 50#, depending on the size of the fly line I plan to attach the loop to. I honestly don't know how many connector loops you can make out of one lenght because I'm still using the same one I bought 4 years ago. Use the same proceedure you would use when braiding hollow polypro rope. You will have to use some type of threading device. I stick a yarn needle into a small dowel

I go ahead and make a few rather largish loops to attach my running line to my backing and some smaller ones to attach my leaders to my fly line.

To attach these loops to your fly lines you have a couple of options;
a) Go to the local electrical supply and get some heat shrink that barely fits over the connection at the braided mono and apply just enough heat to shrink it into place. I have had this method let go on me only once. But once was enough.
b) Whip finish the tag ends of the braided mono with rod makers thread, and cover with some silicone to make it smooth. This has never let go, but you have to cut your fly line if you ever need to change this loop.

I use a loop-to-loop connection for both my running lines and my leaders. I even use a version of the braided line loop for my shooting heads.

freefl2 · Post by **freefl2** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 2:40 pm

you can make your own loop to loop connection, use a heavy pc of mono tie it with a Albright knot to the end of your fly line, now on the other end of the heavy mono you tie a Perfection Loop (my preferred knot) or the Dbl Surgeons Loop. So what you end up having is FLY LINE to about a 3 inch pc of heavy mono about the same thickness as the fly line with a loop to connect a pre-looped leader.

As soon as you buy leader, tie one of the loop knots above at the butt end of the leader then put it back in the pack.
If you want to change leader, you just cut the fly off, do your standard Loop to loop and you're ready to go.

And if you are using this method on trout with small flies you can tie up one leader for nymphs with weights, and a second one with a dry fly on it and make the loop to loop connection with fly attached. ( a real plus on those 20 deg days on the stream.

See this page http://www.redchaser.com/redchaser.com/id53.html

GoinCoastal · Post by **GoinCoastal** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 4:16 pm

You can also pick braided loop connectors for a very reasonable price at most flyshops. They are good for a range of line sizes. I have some that are 2-5wt and some that 6-9wt. You just slip one over the end of the flyline, add a drop of glue at the end of the braid, and slip the he collar over the glue. It never comes off and is very strong and is low profile going thru the guides. I use the perfection knot at the fly end of the leader to connect a section of tippet.

bow_wave · Post by **bow_wave** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 10:11 pm

GoinCostal, we used to have a good fly shop here in Corpus, but they went out of business. Academy's supply of fly fishing equipment is minimal. For a while, Roy's didn't have anything for fly fishing, but they are starting to stock more. I think I may have to order over the Internet to get quality supplies.

The Wizard · Post by **The Wizard** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 11:01 pm

Bow wave;

As Joe indicated, I use a braided loop connector on the end of every flyline I own and I love them. I have never had a failure and they allow the fly to turn over just fine.

I like the Orvis brand connector best. You can order them from the catalog or go to the website.

Here is the URL for those connectors.

http://www.orvis.com/store/product_choi ... 4&shop_id=

Good luck and don't mess with those darned nail knots and stuff.

The Wizard

GoinCoastal · Post by **GoinCoastal** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 8:52 am

For you Corpus flyfishers......

The Austin Angler, the first fly shop in Austin, has partnered with a tackle shop in Rockport (Seaworthy Marine) to stock flyfishing stuff. You may want to take the drive over to Rockport and check out both Seaworthy Marine and Capt Sally's Rockport Kayak Outfitters. I think yall will find some of those things that you can't find in CC.

bow_wave · Post by **bow_wave** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 9:44 am

Thanks for the advice. I think I'll go the braided loop route for the time being.

Lefty Ray · Post by **Lefty Ray** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 11:14 am

Use a 50 or 60 lb mono.

Tie a short piece to the fly line using a Duncan Loop. Zap a gap in place.

At the end of the mono tie a Perfection Loop. Zap a gap the Perfection knot. I have been using this for too many years. I have had zero failures. In instances when no zap a gap was available I still have full confidence in the connection.

This is something I will cover in my "Very Fishy" seminar

Barnacle Bill · Post by **Barnacle Bill** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 11:26 am

Knot hell is an understatement. I tie a perfection loop and some other kind of loop that Barry or Fred taught me. I don't remember what it's called. I'm keeping it as simple as possible. I still can't tie a nail knot or any of those others.

bow_wave · Post by **bow_wave** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:05 pm

Lefty, I hate to sound stupid but what is Zap a gap? I've never seen that at Academy. I saw some sort of glue for gluing leader to line, etc. Is that what it is. I put a little rubber cement over my knot to smooth it somewhat for moving smoothly through the guides. I appreciate all the advice you guys give. It makes fishing preparation a little easier.

popasan · Post by **popasan** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:07 pm

bow wave,

Zap A Gap is a waterproof super glue.......

Larry

popasan · Post by **popasan** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:23 pm

GoinCoastal wrote:For you Corpus flyfishers......

The Austin Angler, the first fly shop in Austin, has partnered with a tackle shop in Rockport (Seaworthy Marine) to stock flyfishing stuff. You may want to take the drive over to Rockport and check out both Seaworthy Marine and Capt Sally's Rockport Kayak Outfitters. I think yall will find some of those things that you can't find in CC.

thanks Joe...i will check it out ......

bow_wave · Post by **bow_wave** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:36 pm

Popasan, thanks. I'll look for some the next time I'm in Academy.

GoinCoastal · Post by **GoinCoastal** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:41 pm

If you look at Zap-A-Gap's label, you will find that it is just SUPERGLUE (CA). Of course, we all know there can be quality differences among the same product by different vendors. I picked up some bottles of generic CA in thick and medium viscosities at Hobby Lobby. I love the medium!!!! It is a bit thicker than Zap-A-Gap so it holds its shape longer. The thick is nice too.

I am going to continue trying the generic for a while and see if I can tell any difference. It is so much cheaper than Zap-a-gap. If doesn't hold up, I will go back to Zap-a-gap or Loctite.

Lefty Ray · Post by **Lefty Ray** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:37 pm

The green label Zap-a-Gap is what I use. I do not use the pink label (I forgot the reason). It is a little pricey and can be found in fly shops, airplane hobby stores, and craft stores. It works great and fast if an accelerator is used with it (I forgot to mention that part). The brand of excellerator does not matter (so far).

What makes it even more expensive is that you will never get to the bottom of the bottle. It will harden before you get your moneys worth out of it. The picture above shows the typicall container. The NEW container which I have found at Michaels (only, so far) has a black screw top lid. This better closure has enabled the bottle to last the longest so far.

I am in the middle of taking pics for my "Very Fishy" seminar so at some point I will have a pic of it.

popasan · Post by **popasan** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:41 pm

Hey GC,

i just checked with the Seaworthy Marine booth here at the boat show (in corpus) and they no longer sell fly fishing equipment with Austin Angler.......guess they un-pardnered.......he no longer has any fly fishing stock......

Larry

fishin' · Post by **fishin'** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 6:49 pm

All CA glues are not created equally and it is not just a viscosity difference. There are different formulas for glueing different materials and different types of plastic. I use about 10 different CA glues at work on different materials but use Zap A Gap for knots in monafilament and for fly tying. The other that I sometimes use if I am out of the Zap A Gap is 3M Pronto CA8, a medium viscosity, medium set glue. I have tried most of the other CA's that I have access to on knots but prefer the finish of the ZAG. Just my .02

fishin'

Lefty Ray · Post by **Lefty Ray** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 9:13 pm

I have used the Pronto CA5 in the past along with a spray on accelerator. It was hard to find overall but the R.S. Hughes supply house carries it.

TexasKayakFisherman.com

Knot hell

Knot hell

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