TexasKayakFisherman.com est. 2000

Kayak fishing the Lone Star State...


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By karstopo
#2279714
The 7/8 weight has been missing from the line up for sometime now. Cabelas website has them listed once again. $69, that still a deal.

Makes for a great Texas inshore rod. For someone looking to get into glass, this would be a good place to start.
User avatar
By Kirk B.
#2279732
Slurp Slobber Drool

I have an old Wright & McGill 7 wt that I love. That slow glass is just my speed. Good for creeks and open water.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
User avatar
By Ron Mc
#2279762
A 5/6 will do all you need catching white bass. (SA System 5)
T-130 sinking line is a decided advantage for this fishing.
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The reason you might want to take a 7/8 after white bass is the potential bycatch. Note I'm also throwing T130 on this 7-wt Fisher.
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On the subject of old glass, here's a 1960 Harnell 8' 7-wt that caught fish on two coast trips this fall.
It's even got mylar
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This is my go-to white bass rod, Phillipson E80 8' 6-wt.
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Last edited by Ron Mc on Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Kirk B.
#2279764
Beautiful rods.
I tried for white bass a couple of times lats year. Sam Rayburn just never would go down enough to let the creeks flow on southern end. I'm hoping for better this year, but it's not looking good, so far.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
User avatar
By Ron Mc
#2279881
Thanks Kirk.

Got my CGR 7/8, and tried some lines and casts.
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What I want with this rod is to be able to make quick boat length presentations to fish sign, and also cast (some) distance, all while sitting in a kayak, and quick out of the gate - a shotgun start. Mostly, do it all with a minimum of false casts.
The CGR 7/8 should be capable of this.
It will cast the leader alone, which only progressive-taper glass and a few cane dry fly rods will do.

My long S-glass (para) and graphite line cannons will make the long casts, but from zero, they all require several quick false casts just to get the front line taper through the rod - this isn't a problem if you're wading, and pre-armed by already having the front taper through the rod.

Started with a 7-wt slime line, thick leader and tippet, only 6' total. The taper and belly is 35', stripped out again that much running line.
With only a foot of front taper hanging from the rod tip, I was through the belly in 2 false casts, and shot the rest on the 3rd stroke. This is exactly what I want, and the rod does it perfectly with the correct line.

When I tried a WF7F Rio Redfish taper, the result was Fail - this line behaves incredibly on my long fast rods.
But the line will not shoot on the CGR 7/8.
It's because this line has a very long front taper followed by a short belly. The line taper and belly handles and casts beautifully on the CGR - like a Double Taper trout line - but the rod will not shoot the back taper more than a dozen feet - not with all my coaxing and best haul form. Shooting the belly shouldn't be affected by the long 7' furled mono leader plus 5' fluoro tippet that was already on this line.
Noteworthy, and not surprising, the CGR 7/8 would cast the long leader alone beautifully.

So I dug out my 333 WF8F Salt Rocket taper, which is on the reel and rod in the photo above.
Up front, it also had a total tapered leader and tippet of 12'
With the 333 WF8F Salt Rocket, it behaved exactly the way it did with the slime line, and I was able to duplicate the exact same cast.
A foot of front taper out the rod tip, holding my long dangling leader, 2 false casts through the belly, and 3rd stroke, shoot additional running line equal to what was already in the air, and more.
The rod did ask me to control my arm movements and use my haul.
So the CGR 7/8 likes the 7-wt slime line taper, and it also wants an equally short front taper on the floater, which the 8-wt rocket taper has.
A warning to try your lines with this rod if you want a shotgun start and be able to shoot out to 70'

For my shotgun start, I want total leader and tippet no longer than the rod, so it's ready to pick up and start my cast.
I'm going to use 50" mono furled leaders, which I'll balance to the rod length with fluoro tippet.

Borrowed these photos from a friend and parallel discussion of this on FFR - here is the line taper that works well on the CGR 7/8
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Here's the type line taper that works well on long graphite rods, but doesn't work well on the CGR 7/8.
And this result surprised me, I thought this line would work great on the rod.
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Last edited by Ron Mc on Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:52 am, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
By Kirk B.
#2279887
Thanks for the tech. I'll have to wait til the "after-Christmas" sale to get one. Wife would get a bit upset with me, lol. She just got me a new phone for my present, and wouldn't appreciate me buying my own gift. She gets strange this time of year, and I just humor her.
I'll look around and find me a good short front taper line to go with it. I might try one of the bass bug tapers just for giggles and grins. If it won't work here, I have a cheapo graphite that will love it.


Kirk B.
User avatar
By karstopo
#2279888
I like my 8 weight SA Sharkwave Saltwater Titan Taper with the CGR. Airflo 8 Weight Tropical Punch Bruce Chard also cast nicely. Tried a 7 weight SA bonefish line a long time ago, but didn’t like that all that much.
User avatar
By Ron Mc
#2279894
yeah, the bonefish line is a long belly line (45' belly) - definitely for the long fast para graphite line cannon (RPLX and TCR) standing on the deck of your Hewes.

Next time I feel like tinkering, I'm going to try casting a gang of Teeny sinking lines, T130, T200, and TS250 on the CGR 7/8 - just curious - though I'm not planning to fish these in the salt on this rod.
But if it casts the T130, may take it in freshwater - if it loads and shoots that line properly, it would make it a pretty perfect white bass rod (actually, little question it would shoot the heavier grain-weight heads).
User avatar
By Ron Mc
#2280012
Beautiful sunny day here - finally - just got back from an errand, and while I was in the garage, changed lines and took the rod to the back acre.
T130 - it casts beautifully, but the 130g head limits how far down it loads the rod - it will shoot out to 60', pretty much without effort, but no further.
T200 will sail to the end of the running line.
The rod again demands good arm control - you must stop your forward cast with the tip high even when shooting line - haul pays off in distance.
#2280013
I use my CGR 7/8wt pretty exclusively as a bass rod and have the Orvis Hydros Bass line in 7wt on it. I can damn near bomb out the whole line pretty easily. The downside is that it's a floating line so when I've used it on the Lower Colorado (vs. the creeks and lakes here around Houston) I've needed to get down deeper so I just loop in a Rio sink-tip. When doing that you've got to carefully balance the fly itself because it can cause a hinge in the cast.
User avatar
By Ron Mc
#2280017
If you read my cast results with a 7-wt slime line (intermediate/neutral-density sinker), that might be the next place to look.
Inshore, I go to my slime line more often than a floating line - absolutely killer for countdown-depth dock fishing.
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The T130/T200 spliced shooting heads are mostly for white bass/striper fishing, though they have a niche at the coast for narrow waist-deep tide passes and deep channel slopes (especially TS250).
Last edited by Ron Mc on Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
By ben_beyer
#2280168
I haven't casted a glass rod but I'm interested in doing some bass and saltwater fly fishing from my kayak.

For saltwater, it would be primarily sight casting to redfish.

Should I give it a go or continue on with getting a Mojo Bass fly rod?
User avatar
By Ron Mc
#2280175
Ben, sit-down casting in a kayak to redfish is the only reason I bought this rod.
It loads quickly, gets line out quickly, and will fish from a boat length to 50'.
I have several good salty line cannons, Sage RPLX (7) and a custom Japanese S-glass (also a 7-wt that duplicates the Sage with less shock and fatigue), 9' 8-wt magic wand Fisher, but all are too long and too fast for fishing in close, especially sitting down.
With a 30' shooting head, I've shot the RPLX out to 140'

The CGR 7/8 is also a good bass rod.
A stiff short para taper is exactly what you don't want sitting in a kayak, because it takes so many false casts to get it started.
A soft tip works best for accurate short casts, the initial handling of the leader and small amount of front taper, and get it out to fishing length with few and smooth arm movements.
Last edited by Ron Mc on Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:00 am, edited 7 times in total.
User avatar
By karstopo
#2280176
I use my two 7/8 weight CGR rods quite a bit for sight fishing redfish. I’m not familiar with the Mojo Bass rod. I really like the CGR in the kayak. If you are used to fast carbon, the CGR is going to feel very different. I carry a fast graphite fly rod along with the CGRs. I lean towards the Carbon rod if the wind gets up or just because.

I don’t have any experience with other fiberglass rods outside the CGR lineup other than a Maxcatch 5 weight. It’s hard to pick a rod for another person sight unseen. Tastes, expectations, casting styles, etc. seem to vary a lot.

In general, I like just about every fly rod I’ve ever picked up, but some might be a little harder to like or figure out. Other folks are extremely particular about what they want a rod to feel like or perform. Some have cast dozens of rods and have worked out just what the want.
By ben_beyer
#2280185
I've done most of my fly casting with a TFO PRO II 8' 4wt with SA Mastery MPX. I bought a TFO BVK 9' 4wt a little over a year ago and I've fished it some but have yet to catch anything on it (the wife and I had our first in November 2017 shortly after I bought it). It took some getting used to though but can make a nice cast. I pretty much prefer the PRO II at this time though.
User avatar
By Ron Mc
#2280187
Everything about the glass rod is slower and smoother motions - and also more forgiving.
My hierarchy is 9+' rods ought to be graphite, 8-8-1/2' rods ought to be S-glass (you can substitute cane for S-glass), and anything shorter than 8' works best in e-glass. This is fairly hard and fast for progressive tapers. With para (fast tip) tapers, you can use the faster material in shorter rods, but again, the goal with those is getting the greatest cast distance out of the short rod, not necessarily great control for fishing in close.
I've fished well over 100 fly rods, in every kind of water, and still own an embarrassing number of fishing poles.

If you understand the cast I described above, the glass gets to fishing length quicker and with fewer false casts, though using false casts to build up line speed will make the faster rods cast farther.
If you're standing up so you have farther view, the faster rod is an advantage.
But sitting low, being able to fish in close without spooking fish is an advantage.
The CGR 7/8 flexes a little more in the mid than my favorite crisp progressive taper rods (more than the old Harnell I show above), but it's the right rod for this task.

I hunted down the Harnell this summer when the CGR 7/8 was OOS, and no sure sign they'd restock. Still, it's a rod I'm very happy with - in 1960, Harnell were the best rods made - they were designed by Jim Green, who later made Fenwick famous, and went on to Sage. The shortcoming of the Harnell is it has small guides and doesn't feed out a floating line well, but it sings with the slime line (and I don't feel like tearing up the wraps on the original condition rod - sure has higher grade cork than most rods today).
User avatar
By karstopo
#2280192
I’m forever amazed at the knowledge of the various rod actions and makers displayed by Ron. For anyone that’s considering a fiberglass fly rod, there also is a forum dedicated to fiberglass. There’s a wealth of information there on glass rods.

Ben, I’ve never cast the 4 weight BVK. I have the 8 weight BVK. Last time I used it was a few years ago while wading the Airport flats of West Matagorda. I don’t have a photo of the whole rod. Here’s a fish or two on the beach there. I like a 9’ rod when wading more than about ankle or shin deep. Image
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I haven’t brought it along in the kayak in a long time. I got away from 9’ rods in the kayak. One thing I found is that the 9’ rods tended to get in the way. I fish a lot of areas that aren’t wade friendly, too muddy or too much sharp shell.

I started off my fly fishing for redfish with a 9’ 7 weight Gary Borger Pro by Targus. The last time I fished it was a couple of years ago in East Matagorda bay. It’s actually a very nice rod. I got the 9’ 8 weight BVK not too long after I got the Gary Borger. I had a TFO Axiom 9’ 8 Weight, I gave it away, nothing wrong with it, just too many rods. I fished a 8’ TFO 6/8 weight minimag for a time, actually so much, the handle disintegrated. It’s a blend of carbon and fiberglass. They all work. I can’t remember why I even got the 7’ 6” 7/8 weight CGR. It might have been because it was so short. 40 years of fishing 6’4” to 7’ or baitcasting rods ingrained in me a prejudice for shorter rods.

I fish or cast almost every day. I live on a lake and keep a half dozen rods strung and ready to go at all times. It’s relaxing to go out on the dock or off the bank and make a few casts in the morning before getting ready for work or at sunset after the day is done. My entire CGR line up, all of them except the 3 weight which I don’t own and the 4 weight I need to buy line for stay ready to go. At twilight yesterday, it was the 7’ 4/5 weight, now called the 5 weight. Are any of the CGR rods really any good? I really wouldn’t know. They work for me. I enjoy them all. I was tossing out a white size 2 balanced leech off the dock with the 4/5. There’s limbs and branches all above. Everything is sidearm and or offhand. I toss to targets. The little willow that hangs over the water, the cypress knee, surface disturbances made by feeding predators. One such disturbance produced this channel cat at sunset yesterday. Image
Catfish are pretty strong and fun on bendy glass.

The 7/8 weight CGR can certainly handle anything inshore marsh or bay redfish providing your tippet and hook is up to the task. Image
This marsh redfish went about 13#, I weigh the net with the fish in it to avoid hurting the jaw, with a boga. I used one of my 7/8 weight CGR. This was about as long of cast I’ll make with it. I was staked out in a large drain and saw the big fish coming my way along the edge of the drain. It looked to be heading into deeper water, so I felt like it was now or never. I cast out about 70-75 feet and just in front of the fish. The fish moved right for the tan borski slider. The rod can really power up on a cast when needed and the extra bend is nice when handling bigger reds around a kayak.

More typical of a scenario in the marsh is the one that netted this fish. Image

Spotted it about 25’ off the bow. It actually sensed me, but wasn’t in high alarm. It swam off to my port side and away and I made an offhand going away shot at about that 25’ mark. The fish took the crack fly going away.

For odd angle, short range, creative type of shots that tend to appear suddenly in kayak fishing, the 7/8 weight CGR is tops in my book.

Makes for a great LMB rod, too. ImageImage
Good for tossing deer hair bugs. Image
User avatar
By Ron Mc
#2280194
thanks bro, and you know I always like photos...
Fly fishing is so second nature to me, it's like breathing. It's a fun process to break it down into the elements that make me think about it.
Reading water was natural from childhood. At 12-y-o, literally my first cast, walked up to the the Lake of the Ozarks, looked into the shallow cove, cast a Johnson Sprite across the top of a sunken log, skittered it back across, let it drop, and caught a 3-1/2# smallmouth.
I grew up fishing reservoirs and coast.
I've had cycles of coldwater, hill country warmwater (know every bridge within 100 mi), business travel from east to AK (so much I can guide Kenai), backpacking trips into the Rockies, Caribe vacations, and a really good saltwater cycle in the 90s when I was working contract and taught some guide buddies to fly fish.
My buddy Steve was in the first published photographs of kayak fishing, in Phil Shook articles in '94.
My friends all know, if there's fish, I'll catch them (and I'm also pretty good at finding them). Guides like me because I make them look good.

When I could first drive, bought my first fly rod (for white bass fishing) with my first weekend job as a tire mechanic, drove to Pancranz crossing on the Guadalupe, and caught Guadalupe bass. That first rod, btw, was a Shakespeare WondeRod 9' 8-wt, which I still own - though it was a great by-feel learning tool, I wouldn't take it fishing for anything, nor would I wish it on anyone else.

Next rod was Orvis Fullflex A 7-1/2' 6-wt glass in a Green Mountain kit (my nephew has it now). First graphite was Powell Silver Creek 4-wt, which my girls grew up fishing. Then my first salt rod, the RPLX7. Next was a Fisher Sterling 5/6 wt combo, which you couldn't pry from my hands like the redneck gun bumper sticker. Each of these rods with their original reel combo has caught well over 1000 fish.
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About 25 years ago, I became jaded catching big fish after big fish, not enjoying it for the insulating, overqualified graphite rods and disc drags, wondering why I was harassing the fish, and just about ready to quit. So I went after big rainbows in the Guadalupe tailwater on antique cane and click pawl reel. First 20" rainbow in 350 cfs pocketwater - oh, crap, what am I going to do now - remembered why we do this.
Since then, been buying up and selling cane and glass, vintage reels, repairing vintage reels, buying niche-specific graphite and glass. On FFR, we wrote the book on glass rods, sampling every venerable rod model from ebay when you could buy them for $15.
I sold Cameron Mortensen (TFM) his first glass rod - first Heddon Pal Pro Weight 8381 that we ever discussed, and we turned these rods into legend. It's because of what we started on FFR, and Cameron's efforts on TFM blog, that the rod makers went back to evaluate glass in a different niche than ultra-light-only.

I can tell you this about the industry and marketing - there is nothing new under the sun. They pushed modulus through the 80s until graphite IV, which was too harsh for anybody to enjoy fishing. Then they backed up in modulus and made more temperate rods.
We're their only market. If they want to sell us something new, must convince us that what we bought last year is obsolete.
It just ain't so.
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back to 1915
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of course, just like today - they sold great tackle and they sold not-so-great. The trick is sorting them out.
Last edited by Ron Mc on Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
By ben_beyer
#2280195
Ron Mc wrote:
If you understand the cast I described above, the glass gets to fishing length quicker and with fewer false casts, though using false casts to build up line speed will make the faster rods cast farther.
If you're standing up so you have farther view, the faster rod is an advantage.
But sitting low, being able to fish in close without spooking fish is an advantage.
The CGR 7/8 flexes a little more in the mid than my favorite crisp progressive taper rods (more than the old Harnell I show above), but it's the right rod for this task.



Oh I understand the cast and I have also been considering getting a Redington Butterstick.

In addition to that, you should be able to produce less noise from a softer cast in close which should help avoid spooking fish.

The slower action is also why I was looking at the Mojo Bass over something else from Redington and Sage that were faster action rods. I had considered getting a TFO Minimag a few years ago but they were discontinued and I didn't have the motivation at that time to jump on one.

I may also have to pick up one of the 2wt's in case I ever make it back to a small mountain stream or creek with easily spooked fish.
User avatar
By karstopo
#2280199
I put the single hand long graphite rods, 9’ or more, as rods for either on the water line control, mending, or distance casting. I do aerial mends with my short CGRs and G.Loomis Short Stix on the lake and in the marsh. Basically, it’s having the fly and/or line curve around obstacles or to get in the right part of the current. I don’t often do a lot of on the water mends or roll casting in the saltwater or lake fishing I do.

Longer rods are good for water clearance when wading deeper. Some like them in the kayak when sitting.

Short rods swing lighter by nature, even heavier fiberglass. I often elevate my elbow and shoulder when needed to clear low shoreline brush or rocks behind me. A short rod is light and easy to get moving in an arm position that a lot of casting instructors seem to warn against. Longer rods tend to magnify casting mistakes and might not be as accurate, all other things being equal. If you don’t need distance or on the water mending or a euro nymphing type of situation, why use a 9’ rod. It’s harder to land fish with 9’rods and they stick out in tight marshes hanging on to every bit of cordgrass. Just one persons perspective.
User avatar
By Ron Mc
#2280201
Reach to place all the line between the rod tip and where your fly lands should be a natural part of finishing your cast, for wind or moving water. You can even do it with a roll cast. While it works easiest with longer rods, it especially works easier with slower rods and slower casts.

Nothing beats my 8-1/2' cane rods for reach control, or for mending line on the surface without jolting your fly.
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"Euro' nymphing is also nothing new under the sun - it's just fly fishing with scads of lead. I much prefer targeting BWO and caddis hatches, where I can fish on the swing.
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User avatar
By karstopo
#2280202
I think it's funny how fiberglass as a material was all but dead to many of the makers for about 3 decades. Now it's coming back.

There's surely a herd mentality in fly fishing and the makers seem to exploit that phenomenon and use it to their advantage. Must have the latest and greatest and fastest or die sort of thing. Maxine McCormick goes and wins the accuracy casting championship with an old first or second generation slower and heavier graphite rod.
User avatar
By Ron Mc
#2280203
If you notice, 7'6" glass rods were the norm in the mid-70s.
There was no shortage of tech that went into these rods, and great rod designers were making great rods - Bill Phillipson, whom Orvis used for blanks until they copied him with their in-house blanks - also Fenwick, Berkley, Powell, and of course Fisher (kind of the holy grail of glass - graphite, too).
9' glass rods were wiggly tanks, as were older blue-collar 9' cane rods right after the war.
That said, 8-1/2' South Bend 24 cane will shoot a WF7 into the backing - there was already 50 years of great cane rod design.
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Graphite became a buzzword, as did barstock reels with disc drags - by 1980 couldn't sell a glass rod, though Sage offered them through 1990, and Winston through 2000.
9' also became the norm in graphite, and that's really where graphite shines.
They made a bunch of short tomato states in graphite also, figuring they couldn't sell glass.
Now, mid-length glass is "Tech" again.

Even large arbor reels aren't anything new - 1917 Hardy St. George
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JW Young's 1895 Simplex, which is the basis for contemporary fly reel designs.
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and the Aerial general purpose reel his sons built for S. Allcock Co.
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