Yaks best suited for use on river floats

[Anthem2004]

What models are the red and blue yaks in the post http://www.texaskayakfisherman.com/foru ... php?t=1731 ? Just curious, as I am quite uneducated about the various models of yaks available, and their chacteristics.

I'm going to like my FnD a lot for lake fishing and placid waters, and probably salt water, once I get the motor mounted, but I really would like to paddle sometimes, especially the rivers, and am starting to consider a new yak just for that purpose. It seems that a lot of other fresh water fishermen are doing an awful lot of good fishing on the rivers, and with my FnD, I am effectively left out of the picture. Oh, sure, the FnD can do a little bit of river stuff like it did on the South Llano, but that trip pretty much exhausted the FnD's river capabilities. From what I've read so far, most other rivers are quite beyond what can be expected of the FnD to handle.

I know everyone has their own opinion, but I would like to ask again for folks opinion regarding a good river yak that I can also do a little fishing from, taking very little fishing gear, but would be good in the shallow and swift river waters found on our Texas rivers.

From my little experience on the South Llano (see http://home.austin.rr.com/rdarby2/my_vacation.htm , I now realize that all that rigging I have already done, and have yet to do on my FnD isn't such a good idea on the rivers, with their sharp swift bends with lots of overhanging vigitation and also the obsticales in the water like downed trees and brush. All that stuff tends to grab hold of rods sticking out of rod holders, etc, so for river trips I've learned that I need to travel very lite.

Also, my FnD is way too heavy to portage, even for two people, and about the only way to do it is to carry wheels ... and I expect that many portages aren't likely to accomidate wheels very well. So, the ability to portage the yak by myself is a prime concern. I am concerned that a sit on top would be quite difficult to portage by myself as compared to a sit inside. I had an old Spectrum touring sit inside yak years ago and could easily carry it by myself with a shoulder in the cockpit. I can't visualize how one would portage a sit on top by one's self without wheels. I would really appreciate comments regarding that concern also.

[Charlie Tuna]

Ron,

I have now completed runs down the S. Llano and the San Marcos on a Pungo 120. Both rivers are fairly easy runs. Note the word fairly. The rapids sections take some getting use to and depending on the time of the year they can be very tricky for first timers. I have yet to take a dunking but have had some very close calls. As far a good starter I would suggest the San Marcos. It is not as tight as the S. Llano and thus is probably easier to fish. There are several portages along the San Marcos so your going to have to put your Cobra on a diet. As for the wheels forget it. The trailers are very steep and not smooth enough for wheels to do you much good. It appears another good approach to making these portages is to tie a rope to the stern of the yak and lower it over the dams. This appears to be the preferred method of racers and solo kayakers.

As for best type of boats for the rivers, well the main thing is a flat bottome with little to now skeg. This allows you to turn very quickly and also prevent the bottom of the boat catching too much current. Both these rivers only have a limited number of rapids and other areas that this comes into play so taking your cobra or other skegged kayak is not too difficult.

Good paddling
Charlie

P.S. Lose the trolling motor, the exercise will do you good and keep you on the water longer....

[gerald]

As Charlie can tell you a sea kayak is not the best boat for a river run. The skeg is coming off of mine. Maybe that will help. For rapids and swift water you need a fairly flat bottom, good rocker, round chines...and no damn skeg. Actually good river boats would almost have to have a rudder to go straight with any reliability. You can make the run with other boats if you take it easy...and sit LOW. Portage where you need to. Even though I ran lots of fast water many years ago, I'm in the same boat with Charlie nowand have to relearn everything I thought I knew.

[GoinCoastal]

Ron,

The blue boat is a Wilderness Systems RIDE and the orange boat is a Wilderness Systems Tarpon 120. Both of these boats are designed for angling/diving as is your boat. They are stable enough to do mild rapids and moderate flow which is what I would consider the San Marco River. We did not attempt to shoot any dams or chutes. These boats do funny things in the current, especially the RIDE. However, CT or Gerald were right when they said that SOTs would be better with a rudder when running rivers. Absolutely!!! That's the truth/fact here. The same applies to fighting the wind at the coast with these boats. That being said, remember that most Hill Country streams and rivers do NOT have much flow or mor ethan mild rapids. Of course there are exceptions and thats why we portage. My kayaks fit the bill for Melanie & I do, which is fishing the coastal bays, marshes, and lakes and the Hill Country streams, rivers, and lakes.

BTW - as I can afford, I intend to add rudders to both of those boats

[Anthem2004]

Ron,

As far a good starter I would suggest the San Marcos. It is not as tight as the S. Llano and thus is probably easier to fish. There are several portages along the San Marcos so your going to have to put your Cobra on a diet. As for the wheels forget it. The trailers are very steep and not smooth enough for wheels to do you much good. .....

As for best type of boats for the rivers, well the main thing is a flat bottome with little to now skeg. ...

Diet for the FnD? That thing weighs 57 pounds totally empty ... no way I can carry that bulky, heavy thing by myself! Nor would I like to try to lower it over a dam with a rope by myself.

As for a skeg, the FnD has a huge one and even with that, still the front end "fish tails" if I "power paddle."

So, it seems to me, the FnD is out of the running for anything but the mildest river floats. I was able to make a 4 or 5 hour float on the South Llano with it ... my first river float ... in fact, made the float twice. But I can't count the times I had to step off and drag the yak through the shallows. The FnD does have incredible stability, though, so it took the swift water and waves like they were nothing and I was totally comfortable, except for one time when the river made a very fast hairpin turn that slammed me into the wall where the river had cut it flat, and the side that hit started to ride up the wall and threatened to tip me overboard ... but I got lucky and the current washed me out of the situation before I could fall off .

So, given the many portages mentioned about the San Marcos, it doesn't sound very attractive to me ... and if it is milder than the South Llano, well, you can see why I'm thinking about getting another yak.

Given the need for a flat bottom with no skeg, it seems that such a yak would do well in the swift current but wouldn't track at all on the open flat stretches, which can be pretty long paddles. So, maybe some compromise is called for?

So what yak would be a good compromise between flat bottom/no skeg, and something that would track well enough that I wouldn't feel like I was paddling a white water yak? Oh yes, and light enough to be protaged by one person.

There are so many yaks out there that without input from other paddlers, I could be trying demos for the next year ... and how many demos can you get into waters to see how they handle in swift, tricky current. I've never demo'ed a yak before so don't know what sort of policies retail outlets have with regard to demoing their goods.

Many thanks for any help to all who will venture an opinion or relate their experience.

[Anthem2004]

It just occured to me that I am limiting myself unnecessarily by only considering a yak that I can portage all by myself. Any trip, especially a river float would be a whole lot more fun with another paddler or more. Then a little help from my friends would make a portage a two person activity. Still not fun moving a couple of 50 pound, more or less, yaks up and down a steep trail, but doable. Don't really know why I was thinking about such trips by myself anyway, except that virtually all my 30+ years kayaking (ending a few years ago) were always by myself in a light weight sit inside that I could easily handle alone.

I learned from the vacation with my brother on the S. Llano that having a fishing/paddling buddy makes the whole experience a heck of a lot more fun. That was actually the first time in all my experience that I've ever been out on the water with anyone else, believe it or not. Virtually all that experience was in New Hampshire fresh water where I probably saw no more than half a dozen other kayakers in all that time. Now, I would a whole lot rather get out with a buddy or more.

Anyway, this is just an aside ... so forget the necessity to be able to portage alone and that makes the sit on tops much more attractive to me. The basic question of the best compromise yak is still before the group.

More comments please

[Charlie Tuna]

Ron,

A couple clarifications and points.

The San Marcos is much deeper than the S. Llano (Junction area) so there should not be a problem with having to drag your boat. Gerald, Pam and myself did not have any issues on our run on the San Marcos last weekend. We did scrap bottom a couple times but not serious. When Pam and I ran the S. Llano just south of Junction we did have to drag the boat in a couple spots.

As far as portage, you will have to be able to lift or drag your boat if you run the San Marcos if you make the run from Sewell park to Staples dam. You can cut the trip much shorter and thus will not have to make as many portages. I suggest you go with someone else to help make these portages. They are not that difficult. My boat loaded was the heaviest and I estimate it to be around 70-80 pounds. This was my first trip on the San Marcos and thus over packed in terms of toys. I had binos, vhf radio, gps, in addition to the food and water.

It looks like we are planning another float down the San Marcos on Sept 7th. We will not be doing much if any fishing. If you are interested in just doing a site seeing/exploring trip you are welcome. This is a good way to learn the river and then go back and fish the good pools. Plus it is a very scenic trip as Joe's photos illustrate.

Back to your primay question of the best type of boat, I am definitely not the expert. I use my boat primary for fishing/camping the bays. The rivers are another issue. There is another forum at Austin Paddlers that I have taken looks at in the past. It might be a better source of info in regards to river boats. Or the guys at Austin Outdoors certainly can give better input on best boat types. Plus they will rent you one for the weekend to test drive.

CT

[Anthem2004]

Ron,

Or the guys at Austin Outdoors certainly can give better input on best boat types. Plus they will rent you one for the weekend to test drive.

CT

Thanks for the tip! I live just a couple of blocks from Austin Outdoors and will certainly stop by and see what they have to say. Thanks

[Barry's Dad]

My Tarpon 160, with a rudder works great on the Brazos River. I just got back from kayking the Yellowstone. Great Trout fishing (real rainbow Trout)
I like the longer hull for the rapids and if the wind get to blowin' I do not get kicked all over.
ol Al
Barry's Dad

[gonefishn]

Hi Ron,

We also have FnD's
We LOVE THEM!!!!!!!!!!

We have 6 kayaks & we use the FnD more than any of them

we take ours to the Brazos all the time with no problems
we even ran into some "fast water" they handled it great

when the river's are really down we ususally take our little Swifty's
they are little & "swift"


We have fished the Comal out of our FnD's during the Fall & the San Marcos without any problems

The FnD is in "our" opinion the BEST yak out there

We took them to Goose Island & to Padre, they did wonderful

It's good to see a fellow "Cobra" man out there

Thanks,
Jim

[h2o]

I purchased a couple of OK Capers this summer. I do like the SOT's better for flyfishing than my former sit in's. Although my friend spin fishes creeks out of a sit in well.

I have had the Capers in rivers & creeks flyfishing Northern Pike & Smallies. They work well, I have taken them through class 2 & almost 3 stuff. They portage pretty well at 45 # and the handles are on the inside so they carry on the shoulder almost like a sit in. I have 3 flyrod holders on them 2 behind 1 front & center. On the rear ones with the Scotty fly rod holders I can lean them back far enough that overhang hasn't been a problem. Or, I added marine velcro inside the hatch where I can store 2 strung 9' 6" flyrods. They anchor in slow water safer than my sit ins did, and are easier to get out of in riffs and wade. They track well for an 11' yak and turn nearly as quick as my last yaks. My sit in's were better overall paddling boats and portaged a bit easier and were drier (but I wear waders or wet wade anyways.

The rivers & creeks I fish do not have allot of white water though. www.riversmallies.com has some nice threads on creek yaks.

Some other yaks that may work well for Flyfishing rivers & creeks. Tarpon 110,120, Pungo 10' or 12'. Spinfishing - Necky Santa Cruz 12' Old Town Loons 9'-11' , Waldon Scout, etc.

The OK Capers are listed at 11' x 30" Actual is 10' 10" x 31". My old yaks were the Santa Cruz's I find the SOT's easier to actually flyfish from on Creeks (line management, stability ,elbow room,comfort,etc.)

I have not tried the other yaks, just posted them to help. I have either seen them fished from or recomended on the net. I flyfish several times a week. If you get a sit in for flyfishing make sure it has a large open cockpit for easy line management & flycasting.

h2o (artic cowboy/southwestern NY)

[Guest]

For rivers use id suggest the Caper or Drifter for SOT's and the Pamlico 120 or Loon 120 for the SIS's.I loved my Pungo's but the more rounded hull's of these others are better on rivers.

[paddling john]

I bought my first yak 4 years ago. I bought an Acadia by Perception. I have always fished and I paddled whitewater in Texas for several years. I was looking for a yak to do it all. I have paddled the Acadia in class 2 rapids on the Guad and the San Marcos as well as serious moving water, 180 plus, on the Medina. Other than the small cockpit, it is a pleasure to paddle and fish from. I just recently bought a Pungo Classic for its larger cockpit. My legs just bend like they used to. I plan to paddle with Charlie Tuna on Sunday. If you want to, you can try out the two yaks.
John