TexasKayakFisherman.com est. 2000

Kayak fishing the Lone Star State...


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By txspeck
#2225991
If TPW would designate certain areas on our bays for kayak fishing only then I would support some type of stamp. If they want more funding call Washington, I hear they are very good at printing money! :mrgreen:
#2267457
So they couldn't take a chunk from the millions they give college kids to party it up during Spring Break? Or cut some of the funding for universities that aren't even putting it toward students or the campus?

Before anyone gets on my case, I am a student and I have never been allowed to use any grants or loans. No reason, they just don't let me. I know multiple people who spend thousands going to tropical resorts and Europe who receive grants from the state.

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By Jimbo_47
#2267588
The main thing is all it would amount to is a tax.
Most kayak owners own more than one kayak. I've had as many as four and now down to two.
If you had to register more than one kayak that could become expensive in a hurry. It would also be a PITA when it came to selling and buying between private owners.
I know it's all about the money to be made by the state, and the more popular kayaks become the more the legislators are salivating over it.
Now if they came up with you had to buy a stamp to kayak fish, that would be more practical, but that could be something coming down the pike.
By impulse
#2296224
Long dead thread, but it has some legs so I figured I'd comment. My biggest concern isn't paying to use my kayaks. It's getting the paperwork (title, etc) to be able to register them. I wouldn't blink an eye if they required me to register myself as a paddle boat (kayak and canoe) user, with a reasonable fee and a paddler's license. Maybe even offer an optional safety class and vessel inspection.

In fact, I'd be 100% in favor of it if it also allowed me to use a trolling motor on my yaks. Right now, I can't install any power on them because they're not registered and I didn't get titles when I bought them (2nd hand- with bill of sale, but no titles). Previous owners had long ago lost their MCO's, since some of my 'yaks passed through a lot of hands and none of them were ever powered up.

As it stands, I wouldn't be averse to paying a reasonable fee to paddle, since I am using the resource and there are enforcement and potential rescue expenses involved. But I wouldn't go out of my way to advocate such a fee unless there was some additional benefit, like allowing me to power up my unregisterable kayaks. Perhaps limited to electric power, but without getting a title.
User avatar
By Ron Mc
#2296228
What makes more sense than state paddlecraft registration is having MMSI registration (with or without a handheld VHF/GPS/DSC), which is a lifetime hull registration and links the Coast Guard to a database with all your contact information - no reason TPWD can't access the same database.
If TPWD chooses to register paddlecraft, it's just for the tax income.
By impulse
#2296241
I wonder how MMSI registration would work mechanically in these days of ubiquitous smartphones.

I don't understand the resistance to paying a reasonable fee for a discretionary activity that requires public funding for enforcement and safety. To me, that only seems fair. Before kayak fishing exploded, I imagine the minuscule number of license checks and rescues could be absorbed without denting anyone's budget. But now...

We may just be floating around on a piece of plastic, but I really want to know that a rescue boat or even a helicopter is going to be available to rescue me if I need rescuing. That costs money. It can come out of the general fund, but that means I'm being subsidized by folks that don't choose that activity. That's kind of like welfare... (Of course, that's tongue in cheek, and I do understand the resistance to paying yet another tax on top of all the others we pay)

My main concern is grandfathering in the thousands and thousands of kayaks that no longer have MCO's and never did get titled because we never needed a title in the past. Of course, I may be overthinking it, and it may be as simple as paying $10 or $20 for a 2020 sticker to slap on each of my kayaks.
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By Ron Mc
#2296243
I promise you there are a lot more powerboat Pan pan pan calls for dead motors and grounded boats than kayak rescues - they're just not news.

First thing you need for MMSI registration is a cell phone - so they have a place to call you if you have an alert floating across the marine band and they can't reach you on VHF.
By impulse
#2296253
Ron Mc wrote:I promise you there are a lot more powerboat Pan pan pan calls for dead motors and grounded boats than kayak rescues - they're just not news.


That's true, but this weekend, my brother ran his putt putt and I ran my kayak. He put 30 gallons in the putt-putt and I put nothing in the 'yak. So he paid about $11 in state fuel tax.

Do that once a week, and he's paying almost $600 a year to Texas in fuel tax. That's a pretty good start on contributing toward a rescue fund. That's in addition to the registration he pays every year.

Me? I'm freeloading. Not a dime paid out, except for the Wheaties I had for breakfast. And of the 2 of us, I was more likely to need the rescue once the wind turned later in the morning, whitecapping the way home. Of course, that's posted all in fun...

Strangely, it turns out he can get some (maybe all?) of his $600 back. So maybe this is a good discussion to have.

https://kfoxtv.com/news/kfox14-investig ... esel-taxes

http://americanboating.org/fueltax.asp#Texas
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By Ron Mc
#2296254
I don't see the state volunteering rescue effort, but the USCG - I've seen their small patrol boats on ICW.
Might be different on lakes.
But is the state even asking to register kayaks?
If you know anything about how the state treasury works, no matter the purpose of taxes collected, the governor can spend it how he chooses - TPWD knows this Way too well, and affects the politics in everything they do.
Most of your license fees go to roads, because most of your road taxes go to schools.
FWIW, GRTU has an annual donation to TPWD to buy river survey equipment, boats, shock gear, boots, etc. - no potholes were repaired. While the GRTU lease membership is filled and closed until next fall, you can make a donation to earmark to TPWD gear fund.

DPS runs a gunship on Amistad. Saw this thing on a trailer heading south on I-37 last time I was heading north.
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#2296259
Ron: Texas Highway Patrol has SIX of those, which cost about $665,000.00 each! I saw two at Cove Harbor ramp, once. They were "patrolllng the Intracoastal Waterway"! From what? I think the one with the heaviest armament stays in the Rio Grande, mostly. Not all have the machine guns mounted. Your tax dollars at waste! TexasJim
By impulse
#2296260
Ron Mc wrote:I don't see the state volunteering rescue effort, but the USCG - I've seen their small patrol boats on ICW.
Might be different on lakes.
But is the state even asking to register kayaks?
If you know anything about how the state treasury works, no matter the purpose of taxes collected, the governor can spend it how he chooses - TPWD knows this Way too well, and affects the politics in everything they do.
Most of your license fees go to roads, because most of your road taxes go to schools.



What do your hunting & fishing license fees fund?
100% of your hunting and fishing license fees go to the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department for on-the-ground conservation efforts that help make Texas one of the best places in the country to hunt and fish. Fish stocking, wildlife management, habitat restoration, land conservation, and Texas Game Wardens are just some of the initiatives funded in part by your license fees. Thank you for your support of outdoor recreation and conservation.

Please tell me they're not lying to us...

https://tpwd.texas.gov/business/licenses/online_sales/
User avatar
By Ron Mc
#2296267
I'm sure I was inaccurate, even exaggerating - extrapolating, hyperbole - with "most" - but the governor can pad from the general budget however he chooses, and all taxes collected go into the general budget.

Every portion of the TPWD website statement can be bent just enough - if you can find one of those game wardens, he'd probably disagree with its accuracy - privately, though certainly not publicly. Inside TPWD it's probably very close to the truth, but the money has to get to TPWD first.

Could count on one hand the number of times I've seen Texas MSEO on the water, and even then, more times I've seen county sheriffs rather than game wardens. Game Wardens are spread pretty thin with all their responsibilities. If you think about it, county sheriffs are probably first on the water when drowning victims need to be found.
(Registering swimmers may not be a separate argument.)

I looked it up - 7 states require paddleboat registration - Alaska, Illinois, Ohio, Oklahoma, Iowa, Minnesota, and Pennsylvania. I doubt if any have a helicopter on stand by for kayak rescue.
Interesting discussion here about the pros and cons of registration, with the cons far outweighing the pros, though also the agenda of the organization:
https://www.americanwhitewater.org/cont ... gistration
They draw the interesting parallel with bicycles.
Cities like SA that build greenways for bicycles and baby carriages justify their budget with improved public health initiative.

I know in Alaska, rescue of downed private airplanes is fielded by USAF Special Ops Command - it's part of their training. A fishing buddy is the retired Commander AFSOC - he flew a rescue tour in VN, and four in AK. They get incredible blows in Alaska coming off the Bering Sea, and he fielded as many as a dozen private plane crashes in a single day.
Last edited by Ron Mc on Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:14 am, edited 3 times in total.
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By Neumie
#2296276
impulse wrote:Long dead thread, but it has some legs so I figured I'd comment. My biggest concern isn't paying to use my kayaks. It's getting the paperwork (title, etc) to be able to register them. I wouldn't blink an eye if they required me to register myself as a paddle boat (kayak and canoe) user, with a reasonable fee and a paddler's license. Maybe even offer an optional safety class and vessel inspection.

In fact, I'd be 100% in favor of it if it also allowed me to use a trolling motor on my yaks. Right now, I can't install any power on them because they're not registered and I didn't get titles when I bought them (2nd hand- with bill of sale, but no titles). Previous owners had long ago lost their MCO's, since some of my 'yaks passed through a lot of hands and none of them were ever powered up.

It's pretty easy to get a replacement MSO. Back in 2013 or 2014 I was able to get a replacement MSO for my 2003 Wildy The Ride. I was the original owner, but I doubt that had any effect. I also got he MSO for a 2007 Perception Search 13 around the same time even though I was the fourth or fifth owner. I was able to get a replacement MSO for a 2005ish Heritage Redfish 10 , even after Heritage merged with Legacy Paddlesports and then was sold by Legacy to Johnson Outdoors (it's now owned by Hemisphere Design Works). So, it can be done. Even then I read about many people adding trolling motors to their kayaks without the MSO. You'll need to fill out TPWD Form 143 and at the very least take a picture of the serial number or even bring the kayak to your local TPWD office. From there it's about $65 to get your numbers and registration which is good for two years. From there you'll pay about $32.

You can find information for safety classes from ACA, ACK, REI, and other kayak outfits. USCG can conduct free vessel checks if you call them to arrange for one, and you can download the checklist here: Download PDF.

impulse wrote:I don't understand the resistance to paying a reasonable fee for a discretionary activity that requires public funding for enforcement and safety. To me, that only seems fair. Before kayak fishing exploded, I imagine the minuscule number of license checks and rescues could be absorbed without denting anyone's budget. But now...

Same argument can be made for bicyclist and those electric scooters. There's no mandatory licensing, registration, safety classes, or inspections. Plus, tax payer money is paying for dedicated bike lanes on public roads. There are far more cyclist accidents and deaths in Texas than kayakers, especially in ages 24 and under, and yet no mandatory statewide safety classes. Only thing I don't know is the number of bicyclist vs paddlers and the percentage of accidents/deaths for those two groups.

Ron Mc wrote:If you know anything about how the state treasury works, no matter the purpose of taxes collected, the governor can spend it how he chooses - TPWD knows this Way too well, and affects the politics in everything they do.
Most of your license fees go to roads, because most of your road taxes go to schools.

Hopefully, Prop 5 from this past ballot measure/election closed this loophole which has been exploited by our government since, from what I've been told, Ann Richards was governor.
#2308237
Like many others, I love fishing and got into kayak fishing as a cheaper alternative to being a boat owner while being able to access parts of the lakes, ponds and rivers that I couldn't access from the banks. When people ask me "why don't you just buy a boat?" my answer has always been that I don't have to worry about registering a kayak, therefore I don't have to worry about that added cost.

I am all for the conservation of our hunting and fishing areas but I really don't want to be taxed anymore than I already am. I only own two kayaks at the moment but I do have plans to own more. What concerns me is, will I have to register all of my kayaks? I see some of the members here own and use more than five....what is going to be the cost of that?

I really don't have a solution, I'm just voicing my opinion on the subject. I'll keep an eye on this thread as I'm curious what other people think of this subject.

Jay
User avatar
By Neumie
#2308256
Jayhuntfish81 wrote:Like many others, I love fishing and got into kayak fishing as a cheaper alternative to being a boat owner while being able to access parts of the lakes, ponds and rivers that I couldn't access from the banks. When people ask me "why don't you just buy a boat?" my answer has always been that I don't have to worry about registering a kayak, therefore I don't have to worry about that added cost.

I am all for the conservation of our hunting and fishing areas but I really don't want to be taxed anymore than I already am. I only own two kayaks at the moment but I do have plans to own more. What concerns me is, will I have to register all of my kayaks? I see some of the members here own and use more than five....what is going to be the cost of that?

I really don't have a solution, I'm just voicing my opinion on the subject. I'll keep an eye on this thread as I'm curious what other people think of this subject.

Jay

This thread was started over 11 years ago. Even though there have been many posts on here through the decade plus TPWD has no plans on requiring registration of kayaks (unless they have a motor or sail) at this moment.
By impulse
#2308265
Neumie wrote:This thread was started over 11 years ago. Even though there have been many posts on here through the decade plus TPWD has no plans on requiring registration of kayaks (unless they have a motor or sail) at this moment.


Am I reading wrong? It appears that kayaks are exempt unless they are motorized. Seems like a sail kayak would still be exempt... Definitely true if it's less than 14' long.

Vessels Exempted from Registration— All non-motorized canoes, kayaks, punts, rowboats, or rubber rafts (regardless of length), or other vessels under 14 feet in length when paddled, poled, oared, or windblown; USCG documented commercial vessels used in coastal shipping; and vessels exceeding 115 feet in length.

https://tpwd.texas.gov/faq/fishboat/boa ... nd_titles/

It may be a picky point, but I'd hate to get a $200-500 ticket for powering my 16' Tarpon with one of those 42" diameter wind sails.

On an aside, I don't recall most of the 16-18' Hobies and Prindles I see at the beach having TX numbers.
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By Neumie
#2308273
impulse wrote:Am I reading wrong? It appears that kayaks are exempt unless they are motorized. Seems like a sail kayak would still be exempt... Definitely true if it's less than 14' long.

Vessels Exempted from Registration— All non-motorized canoes, kayaks, punts, rowboats, or rubber rafts (regardless of length), or other vessels under 14 feet in length when paddled, poled, oared, or windblown; USCG documented commercial vessels used in coastal shipping; and vessels exceeding 115 feet in length.

https://tpwd.texas.gov/faq/fishboat/boa ... nd_titles/

It may be a picky point, but I'd hate to get a $200-500 ticket for powering my 16' Tarpon with one of those 42" diameter wind sails.

On an aside, I don't recall most of the 16-18' Hobies and Prindles I see at the beach having TX numbers.


I would think the kayak would need to be registered if it is equipped with sailing equipment; ie mast, dagger board, etc. The Hobie Mirage Adventure Islands need to be registered. I was working at JerryB's kayaks when they were released and there was confusion whether or not they needed to be registered and according to TPWD they do. If you have a kayak 14 feet or longer and it is equipped to sail it has to be registered. I don't think what you pictured would count.
By impulse
#2308288
Neumie wrote:I would think the kayak would need to be registered if it is equipped with sailing equipment; ie mast, dagger board, etc. The Hobie Mirage Adventure Islands need to be registered. I was working at JerryB's kayaks when they were released and there was confusion whether or not they needed to be registered and according to TPWD they do. If you have a kayak 14 feet or longer and it is equipped to sail it has to be registered. I don't think what you pictured would count.


I'm not disagreeing with you, simply because I don't know. But it's interesting that the 2 Adventure Islands for sale recently in the classifieds have no TX numbers in the photos.

I've watched just enough episodes of Lone Star Law to be nervous... And I was once run off the water by a GW because my 17' canoe didn't have registration numbers. Turns out, the GW was wrong- confirmed when I went in to the TPWD office the next Monday to get it registered and they told me I was good (canoes of any length) as long as it didn't have a motor. I wish the guy had given me a ticket because then I'd have had his name. As it was, I just had a ruined weekend and 10 hours of wasted driving.
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By Neumie
#2308290
impulse wrote:I'm not disagreeing with you, simply because I don't know. But it's interesting that the 2 Adventure Islands for sale recently in the classifieds have no TX numbers in the photos.

I've watched just enough episodes of Lone Star Law to be nervous... And I was once run off the water by a GW because my 17' canoe didn't have registration numbers. Turns out, the GW was wrong- confirmed when I went in to the TPWD office the next Monday to get it registered and they told me I was good (canoes of any length) as long as it didn't have a motor. I wish the guy had given me a ticket because then I'd have had his name. As it was, I just had a ruined weekend and 10 hours of wasted driving.

I didn't think you were disagreeing with me. It sucks your weekend was ruined. I think the problem with the Adventure Island is it falls in a grey area.
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