Bait debate...
Bait debate...
Crushed oyster shell aka: chicken scratch or chicken grit is considered bait when hunting MGB's. True or false?
Last edited by Yak-a-lou on Tue Jul 22, 2003 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
RESTRICTIONS - No person shall take migratory game birds:
By the aid of baiting (placing feed such as corn, wheat, salt or other feed to constitute a lure or enticement), or on or over any baited area. Hunters should be aware that a baited area is considered to be baited for 10 days after the removal of the bait and it is not necessary for the hunter to know an area is baited to be in violation
Baiting includes placing , exposing, depositing, distributing or scattering of salt, grain or other feed that could serve as a lure or attraction for migratory game birds to, on, or over areas where hunters are attempting to take them.
Lots of people think it's "True". According to four different USFWS Agents I spoke with grit is NOT "feed" and is therefore not considered bait.
However, you can fully expect that half the state game wardens out there would probably cite you if they found you hunting over grit. You'd surely win in court but at what cost? A day off of work etc... I would advise that you get a written decision from the area USFWS office before trying it. IF I were to try something like this I'd get a letter first and then only employ such a method in an area where I was introducing a wife or kid to the sport.
Reportedly there is no biological basis for the prohibition on baiting. It's another case of good suffering because of evil. The POTENTIAL for someone to take over their limit is the reasoning behind the prohibition on baiting. Of course a land owner can manipulate crops all day long within liberal boundries without being guilty of baiting.
By the aid of baiting (placing feed such as corn, wheat, salt or other feed to constitute a lure or enticement), or on or over any baited area. Hunters should be aware that a baited area is considered to be baited for 10 days after the removal of the bait and it is not necessary for the hunter to know an area is baited to be in violation
Baiting includes placing , exposing, depositing, distributing or scattering of salt, grain or other feed that could serve as a lure or attraction for migratory game birds to, on, or over areas where hunters are attempting to take them.
Lots of people think it's "True". According to four different USFWS Agents I spoke with grit is NOT "feed" and is therefore not considered bait.
However, you can fully expect that half the state game wardens out there would probably cite you if they found you hunting over grit. You'd surely win in court but at what cost? A day off of work etc... I would advise that you get a written decision from the area USFWS office before trying it. IF I were to try something like this I'd get a letter first and then only employ such a method in an area where I was introducing a wife or kid to the sport.
Reportedly there is no biological basis for the prohibition on baiting. It's another case of good suffering because of evil. The POTENTIAL for someone to take over their limit is the reasoning behind the prohibition on baiting. Of course a land owner can manipulate crops all day long within liberal boundries without being guilty of baiting.
-
M-D
- TKF 5000 Club
- Posts: 5088
- Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 8:49 am
- Location: No Matter Where I Go, There I Am. No Matter Where I've Been, There I Was. It's A Vicious Cycle.
Upon reading the restrictions, my first thought was that feed was the limitation, and that the grit is not feed, ergo is not illegal. I think you're probably right about some game wardens not seeing it that way, causing a person undue hassle, and that if a person were to be considering this, then a letter from USFWS might help to head-off any possible legal ramifications. As you said, a person might win it in court but at what cost, and considering that nothing, not even $100.00 bills handed to the judge in a paper sack, will guarantee the outcome in a court of "law". It all comes down to the discretion of the judge, and what his motivations are. Why take the chance?
I dont duck hunt, but have hunted extensively for deer and turkey. I have never, nor would I ever, hunt either over bait. To my mind this is hardly sporting, and amounts more to see, shoot, kill than it does to hunting. I could do the same thing in a farmer's field, shooting cattle, and I'd get a lot more meat from the cow. I suppose I'm more interested in the hunt, than the kill. That said, I can see how the use of a field with certain of its crops left unharvested could be useful in enticing birds to a given area. Considering that there is so much area for them to go, you'd be just narrowing their choices for them, making their decision more in your favour. Somehow, this doesn't seem quite the same thing, nor as unsporting. Interesting dilemma.
M-D
I dont duck hunt, but have hunted extensively for deer and turkey. I have never, nor would I ever, hunt either over bait. To my mind this is hardly sporting, and amounts more to see, shoot, kill than it does to hunting. I could do the same thing in a farmer's field, shooting cattle, and I'd get a lot more meat from the cow. I suppose I'm more interested in the hunt, than the kill. That said, I can see how the use of a field with certain of its crops left unharvested could be useful in enticing birds to a given area. Considering that there is so much area for them to go, you'd be just narrowing their choices for them, making their decision more in your favour. Somehow, this doesn't seem quite the same thing, nor as unsporting. Interesting dilemma.
M-D
Nice rack BB! Whoops.... that may not sound right.... uh... Commendable harvest BB! There, that's better!
I've never hunted over bait either (that I know of). This was all just for the sake of discussion because I had learned what I thought was an interesting tidbit a few years ago. I really can't envision ducks getting nearly as excited about grit as they do about corn or yams etc… My method of choice is jump shooting so a bait pile wouldn't help even if I were inclined to. I personally don't hunt over bait for anything BUT I would (when legal) to introduce rookies to the outdoors. Get em hooked first. They'll progress rapidly enough and before you know it they'll be waiting fro drizzlie days so they can stalk deer on their own turf with a bow and arrow. Then you have folks like my Dad who in his mid-sixties is wearing a titanium knee now and has limitations on walking much less climbing with a tree stand or dragging a deer. I can easily agree with someone like him hunting over a corn pile for deer.
The limited deer hunting I've done has been done after scouting an area and setting up a tree stand along an active scrape line. No wall hanger for me yet but that's no surprise since I haven't chased them in several years now. I spend my time chasing ducks, squirrels, redfish and trout. We just can't do it all. My wife and my 10-year-old stepson are avid outdoors people too and we can't swing a lease for all three of us yet. Maybe one day…
The law I disagree with the most concerning duck hunting is the prohibition on lead shot for wood ducks. I grew up stalking squirrels and jump shooting woodies along the creek beds near Toledo Bend. A simple provision in the law differentiating between open waters and un-navigable creek beds would allow my boys to enjoy this too. Instead we either have to hunt squirrels with steel shot or just watch them fly away. Phooey! I obey the law but I do it under protest.
I've never hunted over bait either (that I know of). This was all just for the sake of discussion because I had learned what I thought was an interesting tidbit a few years ago. I really can't envision ducks getting nearly as excited about grit as they do about corn or yams etc… My method of choice is jump shooting so a bait pile wouldn't help even if I were inclined to. I personally don't hunt over bait for anything BUT I would (when legal) to introduce rookies to the outdoors. Get em hooked first. They'll progress rapidly enough and before you know it they'll be waiting fro drizzlie days so they can stalk deer on their own turf with a bow and arrow. Then you have folks like my Dad who in his mid-sixties is wearing a titanium knee now and has limitations on walking much less climbing with a tree stand or dragging a deer. I can easily agree with someone like him hunting over a corn pile for deer.
The limited deer hunting I've done has been done after scouting an area and setting up a tree stand along an active scrape line. No wall hanger for me yet but that's no surprise since I haven't chased them in several years now. I spend my time chasing ducks, squirrels, redfish and trout. We just can't do it all. My wife and my 10-year-old stepson are avid outdoors people too and we can't swing a lease for all three of us yet. Maybe one day…
The law I disagree with the most concerning duck hunting is the prohibition on lead shot for wood ducks. I grew up stalking squirrels and jump shooting woodies along the creek beds near Toledo Bend. A simple provision in the law differentiating between open waters and un-navigable creek beds would allow my boys to enjoy this too. Instead we either have to hunt squirrels with steel shot or just watch them fly away. Phooey! I obey the law but I do it under protest.
-
Blindcasting
- TKF 5000 Club
- Posts: 5678
- Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2003 10:34 am
- Location: Is anybody going to San Antone
- Contact:
Boxy this is not intended to top your story, but more to share in swapping stories.
Last year I rattled up and killed a 12 pointer that scored (gross) 178. I showed the picture off a little bit at Slowride's during the first TKF event but can't remember who saw it. I'll try to can it if I get a chance.
Anyway I've been after another buck for going on three years now. 2 years ago I got a good look at him and he was at least 14 points and I'd estimated between 24-26 wide. My main rifle was in the shop and I was shooting as .243, shoot was a little long, it was almost dark, and I was at the ranch by myself so I passed. This was the first weekend of the season and I spent the rest of the year hunting him and didn't see him again. This past year I spent 90% of my hunting time chasing him and it finally paid off during the rut. He was chasing a doe towards me at about 200 yards. Somehow he always managed to have a mesquite between me and him. Eventually he got with about 100 yards and for some reason just bolted the other direction. I took an ill advised running shot and missed. Man I was sick about it for weeks.
As for the whole baiting vs. hunting thing, I'm kind of pulled both ways. We've got 1200 acres in Kenedy County. This sounds like a decent size until you realize we have the Kenedy Ranch on three sides and La Paloma on the other. We feed corn in order to pull the does over from some of the bigger ranches (the section of Kenedy next to us is deeded no hunting permanently) in hopes that during the rut the bucks will follow. I personally would rather rather stalk and rattle, but don't have a problem with my family that sets up by a feeder.
As for turkeys, its a little more difficult. We don't have any turkey roosts on our place and feeding is really the only way we have to get the turkeys to pass by our ranch. I've killed dozens of turkeys under feeders and its not as easy as it sounds. However, the last few years I've been getting into the calls and this year I finally felt confident enough to try them away from the feeders. Paid off in a 3 year old bird opening morning and then another in the next morning. Picture below is of the very first one I ever called in. Check out the shaded area in the background - that was my hiding spot.
Last year I rattled up and killed a 12 pointer that scored (gross) 178. I showed the picture off a little bit at Slowride's during the first TKF event but can't remember who saw it. I'll try to can it if I get a chance.
Anyway I've been after another buck for going on three years now. 2 years ago I got a good look at him and he was at least 14 points and I'd estimated between 24-26 wide. My main rifle was in the shop and I was shooting as .243, shoot was a little long, it was almost dark, and I was at the ranch by myself so I passed. This was the first weekend of the season and I spent the rest of the year hunting him and didn't see him again. This past year I spent 90% of my hunting time chasing him and it finally paid off during the rut. He was chasing a doe towards me at about 200 yards. Somehow he always managed to have a mesquite between me and him. Eventually he got with about 100 yards and for some reason just bolted the other direction. I took an ill advised running shot and missed. Man I was sick about it for weeks.
As for the whole baiting vs. hunting thing, I'm kind of pulled both ways. We've got 1200 acres in Kenedy County. This sounds like a decent size until you realize we have the Kenedy Ranch on three sides and La Paloma on the other. We feed corn in order to pull the does over from some of the bigger ranches (the section of Kenedy next to us is deeded no hunting permanently) in hopes that during the rut the bucks will follow. I personally would rather rather stalk and rattle, but don't have a problem with my family that sets up by a feeder.
As for turkeys, its a little more difficult. We don't have any turkey roosts on our place and feeding is really the only way we have to get the turkeys to pass by our ranch. I've killed dozens of turkeys under feeders and its not as easy as it sounds. However, the last few years I've been getting into the calls and this year I finally felt confident enough to try them away from the feeders. Paid off in a 3 year old bird opening morning and then another in the next morning. Picture below is of the very first one I ever called in. Check out the shaded area in the background - that was my hiding spot.
- Attachments
-
BC this is the hunting part of the board, can't take offense to anything that you worked to get. I'm glad that you are also a freerange non-high fence hunter. Although alot of the high fence units have alot of area in them and if you can afford to spend that kind of cash for it more power to ya, I'd rather take mine in fair chase. I just hope that we all can maybe one day get together and take a group shot of the beautiful Texas game that we all have honored mounting. That is a nice Bird ya got! I've never been Turkey hunting, but I've had the bird smoked, jerked, baked etc... Did you mount him?
-
M-D
- TKF 5000 Club
- Posts: 5088
- Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 8:49 am
- Location: No Matter Where I Go, There I Am. No Matter Where I've Been, There I Was. It's A Vicious Cycle.
Trey,
Regarding baiting, nothing is ever as black and white as it seems.
Great job on that Rio! Huntin' them ol' ugly-headed things has been one of the great passions of my life. I used to hunt for a full month in both Arkansas and Missouri. Always wanted to do the ultimate turkey hunt -- two whole months, starting in Alabama, then Mississippi, Arkansas, Missouri, finally finishing in Pennsylvania. I'm sure open-country hunting is an entirely different thing. I've only hunted them in the hills and river bottoms. There's not much cover in the bottoms, either. Only there, the trees are big enough to hide you.
M-D
Regarding baiting, nothing is ever as black and white as it seems.
Great job on that Rio! Huntin' them ol' ugly-headed things has been one of the great passions of my life. I used to hunt for a full month in both Arkansas and Missouri. Always wanted to do the ultimate turkey hunt -- two whole months, starting in Alabama, then Mississippi, Arkansas, Missouri, finally finishing in Pennsylvania. I'm sure open-country hunting is an entirely different thing. I've only hunted them in the hills and river bottoms. There's not much cover in the bottoms, either. Only there, the trees are big enough to hide you.
M-D
-
Blindcasting
- TKF 5000 Club
- Posts: 5678
- Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2003 10:34 am
- Location: Is anybody going to San Antone
- Contact:
Boxy - no I didn't mount him. I usually get around 2-3 a year about the same size. This one was just special because it was my first called-in bird. It's kind of like what I hear about flyfishing - now that I've had success with it I can't see going back to the feeders.
If it works out next spring maybe some of us could do a blast and cast. Hunt turkeys on Saturday and Fish Aransas Pass on Sunday. I've done ti the past few years and it makes for a pretty exciting weekend.
Its been an unbelievably wet year in South Texas this year. Pastures look like Ireland. Should be a good crop of deer, turkeys and quail.
If it works out next spring maybe some of us could do a blast and cast. Hunt turkeys on Saturday and Fish Aransas Pass on Sunday. I've done ti the past few years and it makes for a pretty exciting weekend.
Its been an unbelievably wet year in South Texas this year. Pastures look like Ireland. Should be a good crop of deer, turkeys and quail.
When you set up a tree stand along a scrape or rub line, you are simply intercepting the deer as it moves from food to water to cover. All activity of a deer is for survival, this means food, water, cover. During the rut, they mate. At all other times, FOOD, Water, COVER, period. They dont walk around sightseeing. In affect, you are still huntung a food source, or a travel route to and from this source, usually setting up near the bedding cover is much riskier than ambushing closer to the food source at dawn or dusk. Later, Gilligan!
-
Guest
U know gilligan, ambush is a strong word to use, when one uses their time to scout the property, find the travel routes, figure the best time to setup, which direction the game is coming from. You also have to know the bedding areas and if the stand and or ground blinds are wind direction friendly.
In saying this ambush is a strong word to use and a hunter sets up, now again I don't hunt feeders I hunt travel routes. I know the properties I hunt not because of feeders or the land owners but because I over a 2yr period scouted the densely wooded properties, sat through rain, cold, heat to find out the different routes the game traveled during different weather patterns.
Ambush to me is having a feeder in a area that forbs & browse for the deer is not availiable just my .002!
In saying this ambush is a strong word to use and a hunter sets up, now again I don't hunt feeders I hunt travel routes. I know the properties I hunt not because of feeders or the land owners but because I over a 2yr period scouted the densely wooded properties, sat through rain, cold, heat to find out the different routes the game traveled during different weather patterns.
Ambush to me is having a feeder in a area that forbs & browse for the deer is not availiable just my .002!
