3" vs 3 1/2"

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Hirsch
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3" vs 3 1/2"

Post by Hirsch »

I have not shot at a duck since lead shot was legal. Now that I am a bachelor with more free time I intend to take it up again this year. I am very unlikely to hunt geese. I figure for teal 2 3/4", #4 steel should be fine. Later in season and bigger ducks does 3 1/2" really offer a big advantage over 3" in #2? How many really use 3 1/2" on ducks?
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Evanowski
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Re: 3" vs 3 1/2"

Post by Evanowski »

I'm an avid duck hunter. I'm crazy enough to turn down a good deer hunt to stand in the mud and rain and kill 6 birds.

That being said...

3".

You're getting a bit more shot with the extra 1/2" of the bigger shell, but shot placement is your answer. If you're placement is off, the amount of pellets you're missing with is just that, extra pellets with which you still didn't hit the bird.

Good luck this season!
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Re: 3" vs 3 1/2"

Post by theeyeguy »

Hitting the range and being more proficient with your firearm will outdo any increase in equipment for most hunters.
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Re: 3" vs 3 1/2"

Post by Hirsch »

Right now all my shotguns are 12 gauge with 2 3/4" chambers. I figure I need to step up to 3", but unconvinced on 3 1/2" chambers.
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roninrus1
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Re: 3" vs 3 1/2"

Post by roninrus1 »

Unless you hunt geese, the 3 1/2" is not necessary.
The 3" is more comfortable to shoot too.
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Re: 3" vs 3 1/2"

Post by Cruisin_Cuda »

i hunt with 2 3/4" 12 gauge winchester steel trap and target loads (i think they're #7 or #8). people laugh but it's like sending up a wall of pellets and shot placement is the key no matter what you're throwing at em! 40 yds and under i've never had a problem wither it be teal or pintails.
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Re: 3" vs 3 1/2"

Post by Milkjug »

My shotgun doesn't chamber 4" shells so I will continue to use 3.5"s

If you've got some awesome rice farm lease that the ducks pile into then go ahead and shoot smaller shells. You will get another shot later, and your shoulder will thank you. I am hunting public land, and many hunts I would be lucky to even have 6 ducks present the opportunity. I'm gonna throw as much steel as I can.

Not gonna shoot any shot smaller than #4. Ducks are tough birds, especially divers, and you are likely to embed shots instead of passing through. I don't know if you've ever bit down on steel shot but it is much less pleasant than lead. It will also mess your grinder up if you are processing.
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Re: 3" vs 3 1/2"

Post by Nsea »

In my opinion 3" #4 & #2 are plenty for ducks. I use #5 Teal Steel for a lot of the season especially if they're decoying well.

Lighter loads allow for faster and more accurate follow up shots. Take the time to pattern your gun with different size shot and different chokes, that way you will know your kill zone. If you shoot and don't kill the bird you won't think "If I only had 3.5" BB's I woulda had em", you will think "I missed, aim at the cigar hanging form the ducks bill". Aftermarket chokes are not a gimmick. Nor is practice. Becoming a better shot will kill more ducks than loading up with 3.5".
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Re: 3" vs 3 1/2"

Post by dwilliams35 »

I don't like the 3.5" much either: it's got to be a very specific set of circumstances for me to run any 3.5" ammo through the gun; most of which I'd really just rather use the 10 gauge anyway. One real problem is the guns themselves: especially on a pump, the extra stroke length is REALLY noticeable after using a 2-3/4 or 3" gun.. Enough to where if you don't run it a lot, you very well may short stroke it on a fairly regular basis.
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Re: 3" vs 3 1/2"

Post by SAHunter1983 »

For teal only i will shoot 3" hevi metal #6 or if I am in a pinch 2 3/4" winchester steel game loads. I also use IC or IMod and dont put steel down range unless the landing gear is down. For other puddle ducks I use #4 or #2 if there is a chance of seeing divers or geesels. As was said before proper shot placement, patience, and range is everything. Again this is why I like the IC in the early season. Late season if the birds are shy and on the edge of the deacoys I choke up to mod,or Imod...
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Re: 3" vs 3 1/2"

Post by moondog »

I shoot a Remington 870 Super mag with a 3 1/2 chamber, but I only shoot 3" shells out of it and keep a few 3 1/2's in my duck bag incase some Canadian Geese decide to buzz us. 3" is all you will need for ducks.
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Re: 3" vs 3 1/2"

Post by Facehook »

If your gun can chamber it and if you're ok with the extra recoil, I say go for it. Ammo is the cheapest part of a hunt, don't skimp on something that can make the difference of success and failure. 223 is perfectly capable of killing white tail deer as well because it's all about "shot placement". The problem is 99% of us are not crack shots when the pressure is on.
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Re: 3" vs 3 1/2"

Post by dwilliams35 »

Facehook wrote:If your gun can chamber it and if you're ok with the extra recoil, I say go for it. Ammo is the cheapest part of a hunt, don't skimp on something that can make the difference of success and failure. 223 is perfectly capable of killing white tail deer as well because it's all about "shot placement". The problem is 99% of us are not crack shots when the pressure is on.
Problem is, most hunting situations are really better suited for 2 3/4" or 3" than they are the 3.5's: They are only there to put more shot in the air, but there's a lot more to it than that. It often does it at the expense of velocity, which is crucial with steel shot. Add to that the sub-optimum shot string length issue with the 3.5 and the fact that it's just simply going to be easier to get on your second shot with less recoil, a shorter receiver and thus gun, and a shorter stroke on pumps, and it's really probably not that good of an idea to "overgun" every situation just because you can...
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Re: 3" vs 3 1/2"

Post by SAHunter1983 »

3 1/2"s sound like a cash register opening in my Beretta... sure they kill birds, but unless I am going after canadas, or cranes why bother.
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Re: 3" vs 3 1/2"

Post by Facehook »

dwilliams35 wrote:
Facehook wrote:If your gun can chamber it and if you're ok with the extra recoil, I say go for it. Ammo is the cheapest part of a hunt, don't skimp on something that can make the difference of success and failure. 223 is perfectly capable of killing white tail deer as well because it's all about "shot placement". The problem is 99% of us are not crack shots when the pressure is on.
Problem is, most hunting situations are really better suited for 2 3/4" or 3" than they are the 3.5's: They are only there to put more shot in the air, but there's a lot more to it than that. It often does it at the expense of velocity, which is crucial with steel shot. Add to that the sub-optimum shot string length issue with the 3.5 and the fact that it's just simply going to be easier to get on your second shot with less recoil, a shorter receiver and thus gun, and a shorter stroke on pumps, and it's really probably not that good of an idea to "overgun" every situation just because you can...
I would say 3.5" shells deliver more shot WITHOUT the expense of velocity. That's the whole point, isn't it? For 3" shells, if you add shot you lose velocity. If you remove shot, you gain velocity. When you move to a 3.5" shell, you either gain shot and/or velocity at the expense of recoil and cost.

If your gun can already chamber 3.5" shells, then it doesn't matter if you're shooting 2 3/4 or 3 because the gun is the same. SBE, Versa Max, etc.

I will agree with you on recoil and follow up shots, however I would say that some people handle it better than others. I started out shooting a 12 gauge over under so when I shot a 3.5" auto it wasn't that big of a jump to me. My first shot has always counted the most so that extra payload seems to work better for me.

Some people think a 30.06 or a 308 is "overgun" for Texas white tail deer.
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Re: 3" vs 3 1/2"

Post by Facehook »

I'll also add that if you're a really good shot and you limit out most of the times you go, there's really no need to waste money or take on the additional recoil of 3.5" shells. Also, if your gun can't chamber 3.5", there's really no need to buy a new one just for that purpose.
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Re: 3" vs 3 1/2"

Post by dwilliams35 »

Facehook wrote:
I would say 3.5" shells deliver more shot WITHOUT the expense of velocity. That's the whole point, isn't it? For 3" shells, if you add shot you lose velocity. If you remove shot, you gain velocity. When you move to a 3.5" shell, you either gain shot and/or velocity at the expense of recoil and cost.

The 3.5" has a lot more flexibility in that regard, but it doesn't always work out that way; most factory loads are generally roughly in the same ballpark as far as velocity, with the exception of some of the very light 2 3/4" rounds that have almost been relegated to promo status in recent years: The fastest thing Federal makes for duck hunting now is a 3" shell if I'm not mistaken. One way or another, the thing that really handicaps the 3.5" shell is pattern: the overly long shot string just blows what you would call a "classic" pattern; that's why it's almost always inferior to the 10 ga. with an identical payload. The long shot column just really isnt conducive to patterning, and as a result the gains you may get from increased payload are quite often offset.

If your gun can already chamber 3.5" shells, then it doesn't matter if you're shooting 2 3/4 or 3 because the gun is the same. SBE, Versa Max, etc.

I was referring to selecting a 3.5" gun as opposed to a gun with a shorter chamber, not just selecting various ammo to go in a 3.5" gun: with the long chamber comes more weight, more cycle length, occasional feeding problems with shorter shells, etc. etc.: 2.75" loads are more than capable of killing ducks very, very efficiently: they've been doing it for years, and if you're shooting the shorter shells, a 2.75" or 3" gun just simply works better than the 3.5".

I will agree with you on recoil and follow up shots, however I would say that some people handle it better than others. I started out shooting a 12 gauge over under so when I shot a 3.5" auto it wasn't that big of a jump to me. My first shot has always counted the most so that extra payload seems to work better for me.


There's a lot more to that than recoil: gun weight, both from a distribution standpoint and gross weight, length, stroke length on a pump gun (and increased lock time on autos), etc.: I've never noticed a 3.5" having that much more recoil than a 3" gun, simply because they're ALWAYS heavier..

Some people think a 30.06 or a 308 is "overgun" for Texas white tail deer.

Apples and oranges. A #2 pellet out of a 12 ga. 3.5" gun is indistinguishable in flight from a #2 pellet from a .410. That's quite different than a .338 lapua vs. a .223... What really matters is pellets on target, and the smaller guns are quite capable of that: it's going to take X pellets to kill a duck; X+1 doesn't kill it any deader, and X+700 doesn't either. That's where the larger gauges really start to shine with steel shot: it's not simply payload and hitting a given target with more pellets, it's simply the pattern: any bird-sized segment of the pattern is more likely to have a lethal number of pellets coming from the larger bores. With lead shot, it's less of an issue: the 20 ga. used to be something of a mainstay for duck hunting before steel shot..

There's something of a "magic ratio" between bore and payload that has more effect on shotgun load efficacy than does sheer volume of shot or velocity: Most of it is centered around shortening the shot string; keeping it short increases the efficiency of the load; a 28 ga. will hit just as hard and as long as a 12 ga. in most situations, simply because of the near-perfect ratio in a 28 ga. 3/4 oz. load: the 3.5" gun is just an extreme move AWAY from that "perfect ratio": (the 28, 16, and 10 get closest, usually). Bob Brister did a lot of work with shot stringing and the effects on a pattern: it's quite interesting if you ever read his book.
And yes, just for the record, I've fairly extensively used 12 ga. in all 3 "American" lengths, 20 ga. in both lengths, 10 ga, 16 ga, and 28 ga.

The ONLY time I'll pull the 3.5" 12's out is if I've got a high probability of passing shots at geese out of a duck blind, and a long walk to get there: one that precludes me toting a 10 ga. AND whatever other gun I'm using for ducks at the time, which may very well be any of the other gauges. That's it. They are quite probably the least-used shotguns in my safes.
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Re: 3" vs 3 1/2"

Post by CALopez_1986 »

For me personally... 3/12 with 1 9/16th oz of shot...only cause they don't make 4" 2oz shells
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Re: 3" vs 3 1/2"

Post by Coastal Country »

A good 3" shotshell (Kent fasteel, hevi-shot, Remington hyper-sonics) will get the job done. I use #3's, 1560fps and have good luck with the Kents.

That said my shotgun can shoot 3.5's but I haven't gone goose hunting in awhile, better to have it and not need it then need it and not have it!
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