Niche Tackle and Gear

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Neumie
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Niche Tackle and Gear

Post by Neumie »

So, I was going through my tackle and thought if anyone here has utilized niche gear for kayaking or fishing?

I really don't do a whole lot of specialized things, but on occasion a do bring one specialized rod/reel with me when fishing the flats. Ever since I began kayak fishing I stood and sightcasted to reds. Occasionally an issue I found was the full motion of casting and even just pitching with my full sized rods would more often than not spook the red I was targeting. So, after many years of off-and-on wracking my brain on a solution I was strolling through Cabelas' Bargain Cave (RIP Bargain Cave) and saw the rod which could solve my dilemma.

It's 40" long, Heavy Action, Graphite/Fiberglass Composite Ice fishing rod paired with a very tiny Daiwa Laguna 1000. This little, but strong setup lets my drift a flat standing up with the rod in my hand pointed down by my side. With a quick flick of the wrist I can present a lure in font of a red with minimal movement. It tosses a 1" Savage Gear Crab or Buggs jig effortlessly and with minimal disturbing of the water. It's been down right fun catching reds on it.

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Last edited by Neumie on Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ron Mc
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Re: Niche Tackle and Gear

Post by Ron Mc »

Bought my first XUL Japanese rockfish rods 9 years ago for pier/dock kidfishing.
As long as I can remember, I've used UL tackle with a mansfield mauler (unweighted cigar cork) 4' light-line leader, and croaker hook to fish live shrimp.

These go the other way from our typical UL tackle - instead of shorter, they're longer, 7'6" and 7'9", with a soft glass tip, faster linear graphite over 70% of the rod, and weave graphite over the butt for fish-turning power.
They would make a perfect dry fly rod.
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They're made to protect 2-lb test, throw as light as 0.3 gram (1/64th-oz), and up to about 5 to 7 grams (about 3/16-oz).
We bought them for our kid pier fishing ritual, to catch nursery trout.
I always though they had enough backbone to catch schoolie trout, and one summer night on a Palm Harbor canal, sight-fished two big specs, 22" and 23" on the rod.

Back then, I found them on Rakuten, and had to use a broker to buy them from Japan.
Since then, they've become our standard for throwing live shrimp to schoolie trout, and of course you can throw the tiniest jigs or swim shad.
They're finding a path into the US through ebay now, and many of my fishing friends are buying their own.

Inshore, they fish great with 4-lb to 6-lb test (or tippet), and a 1000-size or diminutive 500-size reel (above).
This is a good buy - my buddy Lou bought this rod for his wife and they fished it last weekend from Arroyo dock.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Major-Craft-Cr ... 3042852515
The soft tip keeps the hook from tearing out of any spec mouth.
Some of these fish we landed had the thinnest and tiniest mouth membrane hooked. Many spit the hook in the net, including the largest 19" trout.
ImageThe light touch of our salt XUL tackle made all the difference on our results Jan/Feb trip. Guides with their fares in the lodge across the Arroyo weren't catching fish at our rate, and queried us every time they shuttled back to the house next-door. If it interests you, you can find UL rockfish rods on ebay, Major Craft is the cost-effective Japan brand, NS Black Hole is the top Korean brand, A good Japan website is Plat Tackle - https://www.plat.co.jp/shop/catalog/def ... -game.html

More dock-fishing niche gear:
I also added this great Frabill net to the dock gear this trip - the 3' handle will double to 72", plus the reach of the big net. Found it for $25 off list on Amazon.
This thing is way too big to get anywhere near your kayak, but it's perfection for dock fishing - I had hooked fish run into it for cover.
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Last edited by Ron Mc on Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:46 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Specialized Tackle and Gear

Post by Ron Mc »

here's another ebay wonder that comes from Russia - 12-lb test titanium bite leaders
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MAKO-TITANIUM- ... 2835273593
They're thinner than 4-lb mono, have the tiniest swivels and hooks you've ever seen.
Save you from tying a lot of knots or messing with single-strand wire and bimini twist for small lures on big specs.
They're weightless enough to fish with a fly rod.
Here's the leader with a 1000-size reel and a 2-inch swim shad.
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Re: Specialized Tackle and Gear

Post by karstopo »

Interesting topic. I like the “odd” rods, not the norm types. Fly fishing is rife with tackle tinkerers. We mess with line tapers, leaders formulas, flies, materials. I obsess about fly weights and sink rates and how it all relates to presentation. I put rattles in flies, use expensive tungsten on flies just to get the 2x faster sink than lead.

John Gierach captures the spirit of the idea of changing things up.

“The best fisherman I know try not to make the same mistakes over and over again; instead they strive to make new and interesting mistakes and to remember what they learned from them”. "Fly-fishing the High Country". Book by John Gierach, 1984.
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Re: Specialized Tackle and Gear

Post by Ron Mc »

Rather than specialized, I think a more accurate term is niche tackle.
You pick it to fish a niche.

When you get down to it, fly fishing originated in moving water, and that's where it works best with the least effort.
Sight-fishing with close presentation is the niche where fly fishing fits most often inshore.
But the way to deal with deep water or getting down in currents with a fly rod is a sinking line rather than a hinging weighted fly. I've caught mackerel down to 15' and even suspended snapper down to 30' counting down a sinking line. That begins with the longest cast - really shoot - that you can achieve, and waiting 15-20 seconds while the whole thing gets down.
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While you still choose to blind fish a fly rod in niches where you know you're on a large concentration of fish - you also gain a huge reduction in effort fishing a (sinking) shooting head such as a Teeny line.
Blind fishing for specs this weekend the TS-250 would deliver a 60' cast with a roll-pick-up and single back-cast. I had a rigged neutral-density line waiting on another fly rod, but never picked it up, because casting it would be much more work, and this wasn't very different from casting a spinning rod.
The arroyo also happens to be deep enough the high sink rate is not a problem. in a canal, for example, it would be too much and would need the slime line.
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Last edited by Ron Mc on Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Specialized Tackle and Gear

Post by Neumie »

Ron Mc wrote:Rather than specialized, I think a more accurate term is niche tackle.
Niche is a better term. I may edit my original post.
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Re: Niche Tackle and Gear

Post by Ron Mc »

Everybody should go to their 7' MM or MH bay rod for kayak fishing.
But another niche example is wading and casting across the cuts between Estes flats and Aransas Bay.
On Estes, I always take out an 8-1/2' to 9' ML rod, in addition to my 7' bay rod.
The reason is two-fold.
Every 20% increase in rod length doubles your cast distance for the same angular velocity (simple ballistics).
Also, drift fishing with weighted lures, the high rod tip helps you keep the weighted lure above the grass.
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Re: Niche Tackle and Gear

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Preferences play a big part in the gear we choose. When I went out last Saturday afternoon, there was another kayaker in “my” spot. Not wanting to crowd him, I went to another launch just to take a look, didn’t like what I saw, and then circled back to the original launch hoping the fellow would be heading in. Sure enough, here he comes and he’s waving at me.

Turns out my spot is his spot also. We’d both been fishing there for years. He had three nice redfish on ice and we compared notes about various spots we both fished. He liked the rattling corks on spinning rods with DOA shrimp and similar offerings. I showed him the flies I had tied on and we talked about our respective approaches to fishing the same reef. He would set up on the exact opposite side of the structure I would typically do.

The rattling corks and suspended shrimp type lures solved the problem of keeping the hooks and lures from hanging up in the shell. That was his solution. Mine was having a series of fly patterns with different sink rates to handle whatever the wind and current was dealing out at the time. The payoff zone was just above the shell, his solution was careful rigging on the depth of the drop and that got him good results with the redfish. My solution was careful weighting of the fly patterns to keep the fly in the payoff zone, but above the hang up zone. That too produced good results, with several redfish, including 4 slots, coming to hand before I moved on to explore other structures.

Same structure and fish, two completely different gear and tackle sets, same results. There’s often more than one way to skin a cat. :cat:
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Re: Niche Tackle and Gear

Post by Ron Mc »

no offense meant, but I'd say results are more important than preferences.

and yes, what you're describing is all about presentation, where fly rod shines.
Paraphrasing Gump, klutz is as klutz does.
I've seen wizards wading the lakes and sight-fishing make a black-nickel Johnson's silver spoon imitate a crab as good as any fly rod presentation.
And actually, when you get in beating wind on the open flat from a power boat, those heavily weighted popping corks work - niche.

Stealth presentation is also where the XUL rig I described above shines - it makes nothing like a splash when it hits the water, and a couple of clicks on the mansfield mauler casts the sound of a kicking, evading shrimp through the water. In big water you actually need this sound to draw fish to the fact a shrimp is there.
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Here's a way to rig a bay rod to do something similar.
It perfectly imitates evading shrimp kick along with the sound, and settles head-first just like a shrimp swimming with its legs.
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Re: Niche Tackle and Gear

Post by karstopo »

Yes, I would agree results validate or refute a particular chosen tackle set/presentation. I was just pointing out a real live situation where two very dissimilar tackle and gear kits and approaches produced the same results on the exact same structure for the same type of fish. Limits plus of redfish caught by divergent set ups and presentations on the same reef minutes apart.

Preferences come into play all of the time in fishing and play a huge part of the gear we ultimately choose to solve particular niche problems. Neumie in the OP solved the rod movement and flash spooking fish by coming up with a creative approach to rod choice. I personally have not run into that situation where the rod movement has been spooking fish so I haven't even attempted a solution to an issue that is a non-issue for myself. I doubt most people would even consider an Ice fishing rod to solve the rod movement spooking fish problem. It's good information, though, just for anyone that's been in that situation. They can consider the same solution or try another route to a solution based on their tastes in gear. I dislike spinning reels so much that I'm never going to pick that option.

I dislike popping and rattling cork fishing so much I refuse to use it even though I absolutely understand it is an effective way to fish over the special niche of shallow live oyster reef situations. Obviously, razor sharp shallow reef presents unique challenges. We all know that is fantastic structure for attracting predator fish since there is so much forage available, but the shell presents big problems for sinking lures and big problems actually bringing fish to hand before they find a way to cut themselves free on the shell.

Since I exclude popping and rattling corks based solely on preferences and not results, I wanted to find alternatives that would allow for similar results and allow me to exploit shallow reef structures without resorting to the dreaded corks. One solution that has generally produced good results has been specific presentations of walk the dog style topwaters paired with heavier in the butt rods and heavy leaders. I would retrofit topwaters with extra heavy and strong VMC hooks as a special modification to aid in powering fish away from the reef since better redfish can bend open stock hooks on many lures in certain situations.

Now, since I tend to prefer fly fishing, I look to solutions to fish those productive reefs I love so much. Of course, I don't want the fly line in any way to be sinking into the reef, so that means using floating fly line. That often necessitates using a pattern with a very specific rate of sink, too fast of sink and the fly will end up snagged in shell and it won't make the presentation I'm looking for. Too slow a sink, and the fly remains out of the zone. fly line with sinking action, line gets hung up in the reef, also a big problem.

This system works time and again. Could I get similar results some other way, possibly. That was exactly the case the other day with the kayaker using corks and suspended DOA shrimp. But my personal preferences dictated the approach I chose. Results I'm looking for and equivalent to some other approach, but with gear I choose on my terms.

Seems like that is what Neumie is driving at with the OP, solving particular issues on the water with specific approaches and gear. No right or wrong, just individual choices being made to various fishing/presentation issues that may or may not be universally experienced.
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Re: Niche Tackle and Gear

Post by Ron Mc »

we're agreed - since this is a niche tackle thread, I guess fitting tackle into its best-use niches also applies.
I will add the mansfield mauler is Very Different from a popping cork - it's weightless and does one thing - click.
ok, two things - lets you visualize strikes at a distance.
And I still think Josh was asking for novel tackle examples that others might apply without developing a new skill set, kinda the opposite of dedicated lifestyle choices.
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Re: Niche Tackle and Gear

Post by Ron Mc »

Dock nite-lite fishing and I go way back.
Rockport and Flour Bluff trips as a teenager, fishing all night was the whole goal for many trips (other times, fall jetties, or spring and summer Redfish Bay sloughs from a 14' semi-vee).

All my life, any bay trips from South Padre all the way up the coast, with boat docks or easy drive to Fulton Beach or Flour Bluff piers, always included some night dock/pier fishing.
Raised two girls with a dock kidfish ritual, and we always caught double-digit nursery trout.
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Arryo trips have evolved from dock-also-fishing to being the primary reason for the trip.
The 10 years I've been using the Japanese XUL rockfish rods, my skills and vision have been widened in what it takes to turn hook-wary specs.

After the success of the last two dock-fishing trips, decided to add another rig, and up the ante a bit with a slightly faster 8' rod. Still a $100 rod, this one from Korea, but I went all-out on the reel. (The Japanese offer many $500-700 rods in this niche, and lengths out to 9'4")
The Vanquish (Japan market only) is the Stella re-made with beautifully anodized magnesium frame and spool (v. Stella's titanium), lightened rotor, forged titanium bail, and plasma-coated Al-alloy wear parts in place of stainless steel, same labyrinth seals - all the internal parts interchange with the Stella. It has the lowest inertia of any reel made (least moving mass between you and the line). Got a good price from Japan at 20% below list and gratis EMS shipping - more than most would want to spend on an UL reel. Whether it's an edge detecting light strikes, will find out next time.
This is the C2000S, with 27" line pick-up /rev (I wanted this intermediate gearing), and holds 150-yds 6-lb braid. It also has felt drag washer instead of carbon, but probably more reliable at 1.5-lb drag setting (set on a spring scale).
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The 8' UL rod is also a bit stouter from end to end, and faster than the 1-6-lb and 2-8-lb. versions I've fished with kids and friends for 10 years.
It has a softer solid tip bracketed by the orange wraps (less stiffness than tubular, it's an MOI thing)
Image The rod butt has a weave graphite reinforcement layer.
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It's rated for .004" to .006" braid, so it safely protects minimum 6-lb test, and is good to 12-lb. Except for the softer tip, it's not notably slower than a bay rod.
The lure weight rating is still 1/64th to 3/16th oz, and it may have some use in the bay on light lures. It definitely has more backbone than the XUL rod I show in my first post.
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The line rating on the rod is in Japan "Gou" units - https://www.jpfishingtacklenews.com/new ... line-size/
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