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By Saltstalker
#2293184
Where can i find the most accurate tide information ?
I swear one time i witnessed completly wrong tide info. from Tides 4 Fishing.
And this wasnt wind blown either.
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By Ron Mc
#2293188
I've always found NOAA chart to be very good at Aransas Pass, from B&R to Estes,
It seems dead on for Estes, and B&R runs about an hour behind.
If you find a station with composite plot, linking to your phone is great for getting water level and actual wind.
I just work from WeatherChannel Hourly for wind predictions, then look at actual measured wind on nearest NOAA composite plot.
Image

They got rid of many NOAA stations about five years ago, and have added Rockport.
There used to be a station at Rialitos with wind, water level, and tide prediction plus composite plot, but now the only tide prediction offered south of Port Aransas is Port Isabel
Last edited by Ron Mc on Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By SteveRetrieve
#2293191
+1 for NOAA. I like checking this the night before and the morning of to get a better idea of the actual water levels are. I like the app "Windy" for wind predictions.
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By TroutSupport.com
#2293196
All tide charts are taken from NOAA data. Even tides for fishing and others.. I mostly use Noaa because, like others, I also want to see if the tides running higher than normal or not.

Here's a link to NOAA ... zoom in to see actual tide stations. Select either 'Water Levels' or 'Tide Prediction'
http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/map/

Windy is ok. I like Wind Guru best... Something that John Havens told me about long ago.
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By Neumie
#2293204
I use NOAA Tides & Current as well. I have more faith in their high/low times versus other websites; such as Tides4Fishing. Plus the advantage of seeing the actual measured tides versus predicted is a major plus.
Last edited by Neumie on Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By Neumie
#2293206
Saltstalker wrote:Thank you all very much.
My problem i guess is , im mot seeing what is predicted.


Click this link: https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/stati ... id=8774770

You'll see a tab which says "Tides/Water Levels", click it and a small drop down will appear. Then click "NOAA Tide Predictions" .

An important note is when you're on that page (or other data pages) make sure the Time Zone is set to "LST/LDT" (Local Standard Time/Local Daylight Time) and not "GMT" (Greenwich Mean Time).
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By karstopo
#2293215
I like the NOAA stations. The more inland and away from the actual gauges one is, the more the accuracy decreases. Then plus Easterly winds or plus winds out of the North and west will skew the timing of tide turns and levels. It's rare for the actual levels to perfectly mirror the predicted levels and timing.
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By karstopo
#2293401
I tend to expect the observed water levels to be quite a bit higher than predicted water levels in the early autumn, late September into October. Stronger cold fronts with plenty of sustained for hours strong winds from coming from 270 to 360 on the compass will almost always lower water levels from above predicted to below predicted.

Right now, the water levels along most of the Texas coast are running a foot or more above predicted. It will likely stay more or less like that until whenever a decent front blows in from the north and west. Strong persistent Winds from the 45-120 degrees on the compass are probably the most effective for raising water levels. Many cold fronts in recent years have winds that quickly swing from North to Northeast and do little to nothing for lowering water levels and the water levels will rise to a point under a constant true Northeast wind blowing across the open gulf. Even a just few extra degrees into the east will really enhance the water raising potential.

In my experience, water levels have a ton to do with where fish might be, at least in the shallow, secondary bays and marshes I frequent. The people I have fished with in these areas on a regular basis would say the same thing. The more distance from the pass or gauge station, the more muted and delayed the tide movement and tide changes become. As an example, Tide changes observed at San Luis Pass are going to be realized at Christmas Point something like 3 hours later and the amount of up and down movement might be half of what’s observed at SLP.

So many places one might fish don’t have a gauge station or a tide prediction point nearby so there’s going to be some or even a lot of guess work involved to time tide changes in areas far away from a known point.

Everyone that fishes places on a regular basis probably has their own preferred approach and outlook to the tides and water levels and winds and how they all fit into the search for fish. I will tell you keeping a fishing log or journal has been helpful to nail down some of the tide factors for a spot. I’ve sort of gotten away from keeping mine, but for nine to ten years I logged several hundred trips and noted water levels and tide changes, among other details.
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By spektakler
#2293498
I like NOAA but fishing same local waters in West Galveston Bay i consistently use Rod and Reel Tide Charts for Jamaica Beach Bay side for everything East to the Causeway. 1/2 hour ahead of listing close to the CW. Weather variable.
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By Endo
#2293520
I've always struggled a bit to see/understand current water level vs "normal". For example, my favorite flats area sucks when the bay water is 1-2ft above normal. I'd like to reliably know if the water is high or low, before I go down, so can alter my plans if needed.

Below is a screenshot of NOAA water levels. Can someone clarify how I would interpret this. Do you look at the difference between the red line (observed) and the blue line (normal level) and this would tell you if the water level is up or down from "normal" . So i wold look at this as say it looks as if the water level is 1-1.5 feet above normal.

Also, anyone know a way to view more than 30 days history in water levels? NOAA site limits charting to 30 days max.
Attachments
water level.PNG
By Saltstalker
#2293522
Thanks Endo , I would just like to be able to predict a falling tide.
I guess i need to watch a fishing spot and compair it to a known station some distance away.
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By Endo
#2293524
Yeah, i'm just asking a related question, as long as people are discussing...on overall water level prediction, rather than tidal moves.

Like one of the posters said above, if you fish the flats and backwaters, overall water level can have a huge impact on the fishing.

.
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By Neumie
#2293529
Endo wrote:I've always struggled a bit to see/understand current water level vs "normal". For example, my favorite flats area sucks when the bay water is 1-2ft above normal. I'd like to reliably know if the water is high or low, before I go down, so can alter my plans if needed.

Below is a screenshot of NOAA water levels. Can someone clarify how I would interpret this. Do you look at the difference between the red line (observed) and the blue line (normal level) and this would tell you if the water level is up or down from "normal" . So i wold look at this as say it looks as if the water level is 1-1.5 feet above normal.

Also, anyone know a way to view more than 30 days history in water levels? NOAA site limits charting to 30 days max.


In your screen shot the tides are currently running 1-1.5 ft higher than predicted. This can be caused by approaching tropical storms or prolong, strong SE winds. The information on NOAA's website is the most reliable on the internet as it's the only place to see real-time and measured tide levels. Depending on where your flat is you may need to figure out the delay in tidal movement from the nearest gauge to apply to your flat.

The only way to see more than 30 days at a time would be to download the .csv file in 30 day chucks, import the information into Excel, and create your own tide graph. Why do you need to view so many dates at once?
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By Endo
#2293531
Thanks Neumie, I get that it is the variance vs the predicted level, but what is "predicted". Can we consider predicted = normal/avg water level?

I get all the things that can effect and drive the difference, just trying to make sure i'm interpreting the graph correctly.

Can we assume Predicted equals Normal/Average water level?

Or, does NOAA actually try to "predict" all these other influences like wind, weather, rain run-off, etc.... Or, does NOAA only predict based off historical avg water levels, and thats all they are looking at.



.
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By Neumie
#2293533
Endo wrote:Thanks Neumie, I get that it is the variance vs the predicted level, but what is "predicted". Can we consider predicted = normal/avg water level?

I get all the things that can effect and drive the difference, just trying to make sure i'm interpreting the graph correctly.

Can we assume Predicted equals Normal/Average water level?

Or, does NOAA actually try to "predict" all these other influences like wind, weather, rain run-off, etc.... Or, does NOAA only predict based off historical avg water levels, and thats all they are looking at.



.

Predicted is probably based on the 19 year epoch for the moon, so historical average. It won't account for wind, storm surges.
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By Neumie
#2293535
Some excerpts from here: https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/tidet ... l_book.pdf

NOAA wrote:NATIONAL TIDAL DATUM EPOCH—The specific 19-year period adopted by the National Ocean Service as the official time segment over which tide observations are taken and reduced to obtain mean values ( e.g., mean lower low water, etc.) for tidal datums. It is necessary for standardization because of periodic and apparent secular trends in sea level. The present National Tidal Datum Epoch is 1960 through 1978. It is reviewed annually for possible revision and must be actively considered for revision every 25 years.


NOAA wrote:For the most part, tide predictions for U.S. reference stations are based upon analyses of tide observations for periods of at least one year. Since the extremes of meteorological conditions have been excluded from the analyses and predictions, the predicted tidal heights should be considered as those expected under average weather conditions. During times when weather conditions differ from what is considered average for the area, the mariner must take note of the corresponding differences between predicted levels and those actually observed. Generally, prolonged onshore winds or a low barometric pressure can produce higher levels than predicted, while the opposite can result in lower levels than those predicted.

Exclusive of weather conditions, the astronomical tide is subject to range variations which should be noted. Decreased ranges may be expected near the times when the Moon is in apogee (apogean tides) or in quadrature (neap tides), and increased ranges may be expected when the Moon is in perigee (perigean tides) or in a new or full position (spring tides). A larger diurnal range may also result when the Moon is in its maximum declination (tropic tides). The actual range will depend upon the extent to which combinations of these positions reinforce or detract one from the other. The effect of these astronomical lineups is included in the predictions and may be apparent upon inspection.

The mariner may be kept aware of the times of these astronomical events by referring to the astronomical data listed in this book. He should realize, however, that there is generally a time lag from a few hours to several days from the time of the astronomical event to the time of the resultant tide. During times of storm surges or when extreme weather conditions are imminent, the mariner should closely follow local weather forecasts as they relate to the effects upon the tide levels.


NOAA wrote:Observations Supporting Predictions.– All tidal predictions made by the National Ocean Service are based upon observations taken at the location in question. For most reference stations these observations often are of a continuing nature. As such, they are used to quality control the predictions and to update the harmonic constants used in generating annual predictions. For subordinate stations, the age and duration of their observations vary from a few days of observation taken decades ago to the most recent survey data.

The precision with which the position, ranges and mean tide level are reported in Table 2 is an indication of the age and analytical history of the supporting observation. Stations whose position is reported to the nearest tenth minute of latitude and longitude and whose ranges and mean tide level are reported to the nearest hundredth foot are supported by the most recent observations, analyzed with regard to current chart datums and the 1983-2001 National Tidal Datum Epoch. Stations whose position is reported to the nearest tenth minute but whose ranges and mean tide level are reported to the nearest tenth foot are typically supported by observations taken in the 1960’s and 1970’s with analysis based upon the previous National Tidal Datum Epochs. Finally, stations whose positions are reported to the nearest minute and whose ranges and mean tide level are reported to the nearest tenth foot indicated either older supporting observations or simply data not yet reviewed and entered into the Tables with full published precision. NOS is in the continuous process of updating the Tables with all available data.

Old observations are not in and of themselves an indication of poor present predictions. Certain coastal areas do not undergo much human or natural modification while other coastal areas are subject to nearly constant modification by both agents. Local knowledge of conditions is still very important to the wise use of these astronomical predictions.
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