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By Getz-Some55
#2285702
Yeah and unfortunately there will probably be a few more this summer on lakes and at the beach. I wear a PFD always, but I have mixed feelings about it being a law (politically lean conservative/libertarian). If you're fishing the marsh, it's not really required.

However, if you are required to wear a PFD while on a PWC (jet ski), then it makes sense for it to apply to a kayak.
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By screwston420
#2285721
Getz-Some55 wrote:Yeah and unfortunately there will probably be a few more this summer on lakes and at the beach. I wear a PFD always, but I have mixed feelings about it being a law (politically lean conservative/libertarian). If you're fishing the marsh, it's not really required.

However, if you are required to wear a PFD while on a PWC (jet ski), then it makes sense for it to apply to a kayak.


i agree, i rarely wear mine in the marsh but always put it on if im crossing the intracoastal or a pass OR a new marsh that i dont know the depths
By mwatson71
#2285751
Tombo wrote:I always wear mine, just to make it a habit.


Ditto. Plus it will help the search party find my body should I die of a heart attack and my body falls overboard. Drowning isn't the only way to end up dead in the water.
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By TroutSupport.com
#2285755
First of all, I am sad to hear this. Another loss; another family ripped apart. I can't imagine the grief they feel by their lost loved one, and I hope that i'll never be that loss for my loved ones.

Secondly, I am starting to wonder if there should be a mandatory kayak safety course for all saltwater use prior to buying a saltwater stamp. Probably even a saltwater boater education course to make it fair. But we loose 2 or more kayakers every year... breaks my heart. We have mandatory hunter education, we need mandatory boater education. I'm not a guy of a bunch of does and don't,... ok maybe i am, but at some point we need something to make sure families get to have family. Somehow I will start working on this, maybe I can get watson, dandy, and shoffer to help?
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By kickingback
#2285758
The mandatory class sounds good. Gonna be a lot of mad people that have been kayaking for years to have to go to the course but refresher is always great for saving lives! I wont mind!
By Kayak Kid
#2285765
I, for one, have never appreciated someone else telling me what to do. I am a moderate fiscal conservative who vehemently believes that the less government regulation in our lives, the better. The fewer laws we have that restrict us from using our own good judgement, the better.

Having said that, I have absolutely no reservation in declaring that anyone who enters a kayak, whether for deep or shallow, open or marsh, calm or rough water, who does not wear a live jacket, has little regard for his own life and that of the ones who love him. In short, with all of the history we now possess on the deaths of kayakers who did not have life jackets on..., those kayaking without a life jacket are considered by me to be representative of the height of irresponsibility.
By SWFinatic
#2285767
TroutSupport.com wrote:First of all, I am sad to hear this. Another loss; another family ripped apart. I can't imagine the grief they feel by their lost loved one, and I hope that i'll never be that loss for my loved ones.

Secondly, I am starting to wonder if there should be a mandatory kayak safety course for all saltwater use prior to buying a saltwater stamp. Probably even a saltwater boater education course to make it fair. But we loose 2 or more kayakers every year... breaks my heart. We have mandatory hunter education, we need mandatory boater education. I'm not a guy of a bunch of does and don't,... ok maybe i am, but at some point we need something to make sure families get to have family. Somehow I will start working on this, maybe I can get watson, dandy, and shoffer to help?


Tobin I like the class idea and would have no issues taking it. Not sure it would have as much impact as passing a law requiring PDF's to be worn by kayaker's but it would be a start. Either way I think any movement would have to go through legislature.
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By TexasJim
#2285775
Back in the '70's when I drove AA/FD's, I'd see guys cheating on the safety rules; Fire Suits, Helmets, etc. I would tell them "When you cheat on safety, you're only cheating yourself!" In the case of kayakers, you're also cheating your family and loved ones. Sad to say it, but , DARWIN AWARDS! In two-foot water, I'll sometimes un-latch or un-zip my PFD, but it NEVER comes off! TexasJim
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By reelfisherman
#2285783
I find it disturbing that people believe in more government regulation. Is each death sad for the family? Sure. So is every death. Whether from a car accident or drug over does or etc. Motorcycle riders don't have to wear helmets and when my wife's cousin was killed in an accident th family didn't lobby for helmet laws. She made a choice and died doing what she enjoyed. We should be glad we aren't forced to wear a PFD.
But we should all choose to.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
By Tombo
#2285798
Simply put, we need to learn from this tragedy. If something dreadful happens to me kayaking, it is not because I was not wearing my PFD. As soon as I sit in my kayak, first thing I do is locate the inflatable handle. I carry my whistle and multi pliers in the pockets.
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By larry long shadows
#2285799
i saw a post on FB where his friend said he told him to wear is PFD..what gets me is it was his first time out on his kayak..when i took mine out for the first time i went to GISP shallow water calm day ..just so i could get used to it... so sad for the family
By yodaddi
#2285801
I can be in inches of water but I'm still gonna wear my PFD, mainly becuase I don't know how to swim or keep afloat. I'm too cautious/paranoid to take that chance.
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By Cityfisher
#2285830
larry long shadows wrote:i saw a post on FB where his friend said he told him to wear is PFD..what gets me is it was his first time out on his kayak..when i took mine out for the first time i went to GISP shallow water calm day ..just so i could get used to it... so sad for the family


I read that on FB also. My first time out I went to Lake Conroe on a calm hot summer day to learn the feel of kayaking. I grew up practically living in the water since I was able to walk. And then an avid surfer until my mid 30's and I don't push my kayak into the water until my pfd is on. Now it is second nature to me and more like a fishing vest that holds all my tools for me easily.
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By shoffer
#2285837
TroutSupport.com wrote:Somehow I will start working on this, maybe I can get watson, dandy, and shoffer to help?


Hey, Tobin. I personally don't have a problem with the State requiring a kayaker education class, but I don't think I am the one to be part of the movement. I lean libertarian like many on this board, and tend to eschew governmental regulation (even though I feed my family because of it 8) )

Here's the dude's obituary: https://www.dignitymemorial.com/obituar ... os-8271106

Now, when the state mandates driver/boater/hunter education course as a prerequisite to the issuance of a license, I can get behind that, since I readily see the need for it. After all, the chances of hurting or killing other members of the public are much greater with an uneducated driver/boater/marksman behind the wheel/throttle/trigger. But an uneducated kayaker is a danger pretty much only to himself/herself (and the costs of Coast Guard/local authorities in event of rescue or recovery missions). Even with driver/boater/hunter education, there are accidents and deaths, notwithstanding the education. I hate to be pessimistic, but when someone decides to run their maiden voyage in a kayak in 30 mph winds in one of the choppiest bodies of water around here without a PFD, that is their choice - albeit a very, very bad one, as the results demonstrate. I doubt kayaker education would have resulted in this poor gentlemen making a different choice, given the apparent evidence that his friend warned him about wearing a PFD. But maybe I am just being too judgmental, which is always possible. All I do know is that I want to catch fish, but I want to do it in conditions that result in as little exertion and danger as possible. If its too windy/choppy, I will find something else to do that day. As many have said, there is no fish worth dying for.

Like others have said, I love having my PFD on but truthfully, safety is the secondary reason. My main use for it is to hold my VHF, hook sharpener, braid scissors and have the close and readily available.
By Mr. B
#2285860
Just read about another one in Florida. Yakker no life jacket. Separated from kayak someone they found him and the kayak floating.
User avatar
By Ron Mc
#2285861
Coast Guard and TPWD regulations for kayak safety gear are essentially the same thing.
On a kayak, just like in a power boat, you're required to have the pfd in your possession, along with a list of safety items for your class of watercraft.
In a power boat, wearing pfd is optional - usually you see them on kids and grannies.
And yes, you wear the pfd in a kayak if you're in more than waist-deep water, and probably should wear them in a power boat if you're not a good swimmer, or everyone when water conditions dictate (rough seas).

Boater safety classes including kayak safety classes are offered everywhere. These classes are voluntary, and if they're not going to be mandatory for power boaters, there's certainly no reason to make them so for kayakers. The only way to enforce it would be through licensing operators and registering kayaks.

Flats skiffs have their share of deaths because of flat spin under power, and riders falling off to be struck by the motor. The answer is simple enough, the operator needs to make sure everyone on board has a secure handle before powering up - about the same thing as giving proper commands before jibing a sailboat.

Have been on a power boat for a Coast Guard spot safety inspection when running Brazos Santiago Pass to the S. Padre jetties. On the bay, been in spot stringer inspections by TPWD game wardens. The difference between the two is essentially the domains policed and enforced by the two bureaus.
Not trying to get into a nanny state discussion, but common sense rules in the end - we can't (shouldn't) count on the Coast Guard to be there to police us daily.
They have better things to do, and we need to police ourselves.
Last edited by Ron Mc on Mon May 06, 2019 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
By SWFinatic
#2285862
Enforcing a boaters education certification can also be done by issuing a card to those who've successfully completed the course similar to the hunters education program.
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By Ron Mc
#2285864
agree, but that's voluntary - you're not required to produce such a card to get a hunting license or register a boat.
The question here is the requirement for a mandatory regulation, the paid government bureaucracy to establish and enforce it.
It's even good business sense for kayak-related businesses to teach such classes.
If you know anything about TPWD budgets and how the state spends TPWD fees "income" on other programs, such as roads and schools, they don't want the chore, either.

http://theensign.org/category/features/education/

What we're talking about is the simple question of wearing a pfd. The state and federal governments require you have one.
They know we don't need a new bureaucracy to teach people to wear them.
Even in nanny state priorities, it's far down the list behind operating a power boat.
You will never find a plurality of people who say "make my taxes responsible for this guy"
Last edited by Ron Mc on Mon May 06, 2019 12:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
By SWFinatic
#2285866
I'm on board with instituting a mandatory boaters education program with one for kayaks too. I would support a small increase in fishing license to help pay for it. I don't think it will be a big help in getting those who either don't have common sense or just choose not to use it wear PFD's in a kayak but proper education on the water is never a bad thing.

After giving it some thought I'm not sure mandating kayker's wear PFD's would help. We have a law that requires drivers in the state of Texas not use handheld devices such as cell phones while driving. I see someone every day I'm on the road breaking this law. We have laws in place to help saves lives yet people make poor judgement and break those laws all the time and pay the ultimate price. Education would help some but there will always be those who are unwilling to participate.

I will always wear my PFD while in a kayak and those who fish with me in my kayaks will also wear one.
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By Ron Mc
#2285867
then you have a soapbox, and you have a recourse - e-mail your elected officials with your concerns.
They're dying to hear from you.
All mine know me - my personal soapboxes are the need for desalination for public water supply in central and south Texas, and elimination of phosphorus fertilizers in Texas - they've been hearing from me for a dozen years. The former, the last drought proved our groundwater usage has exceed the hill country water storage capacity, while our population and groundwater use continues to grow. Phosphorus fertilizers are never needed in Texas and the run-off promotes hair algae blooms. The combination of insufficient freshwater discharge and increasesd toxins in the remaining discharge will combine to kill our rivers and bays in the next drought - with Texas population expected to double in 20 years, we're behind the curve.

But one thing to keep in mind, there are a lot of experienced kayakers on this forum and elsewhere, who may not feel they need to take a class and carry a card to meet your new requirement.
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By Crusader
#2285871
Guys, I totally agree. We should also require fitness and swimming tests -- there were so many deaths because someone who can't swim even 20 yards under 10 seconds goes and starts paddling. One-a-month cardio tests should be a requirement too, as well -- too many deaths can be attributed to a stroke because of heat and extensive paddling. Mandatory fluid injection devices are a good idea too. Plus we should cap the age of participant at about 55.

Jesus, this concern porn is nauseating...

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